Author Topic: Tea Lights in wood  (Read 1197 times)

Offline Dancie

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Tea Lights in wood
« on: October 15, 2023, 08:58:39 AM »
I know someone who has a shop and she is just about to sell some tea lights placed in wood stands - bit like candle sticks but not,

The tea lights are touching the wood, three's no glass or metal dish to separate them,

I have told her that its illegal for her to sell them, as they are potentially dangerous because of the fire risk and she could be liable,

I know this has been mentioned here before, but am I right? is there a regulation about the sale of such things or is it just something we all know is wrong,

I'd love to be able to send her a link to trading standards or Government health and safety website - does anyone know if there is such a thing,

Also the warning labels that go with candle, burn in site don't leave for too long etc are they a legal requirement too?


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Online Twisted Trees

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2023, 03:11:11 PM »
I don't think it is quite so simple as a written rule... BS EN 15494 https://www.tuvsud.com/en/e-ssentials-newsletter/consumer-products-and-retail-essentials/e-ssentials-17-2019/eu-candles-product-safety-labels-en-15494-07-updated-to-eu-15494-19 Covers candles and labelling.

Though not sensible a pure wood candle holder can be sold without a candle, and be exempt,  adding a metal or glass flame guard to the design may be sensible but won't necessarily comply with any specific rules on safety.

I think there may be a problem legally in selling a wooden (or any material) candle holder with an attached candle as you are then blending two sets of trading standards rules.

TT, AKA Pete, but that name is taken :-)

Offline Dancie

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #2 on: October 16, 2023, 08:16:39 AM »
Thank you Pete,

I'm sure many members will see tea light holders for sale in wood this season,

There should be a simple document we can show the retailer to potentially save lives,

I've searched via google and I agree its not straight forward,

Dancie.
Mistakes are proof that at least you're trying

Offline Richard Peers

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #3 on: October 16, 2023, 09:20:19 AM »
Whether there is any written policy on this or not, I think most would agree that it's not a clever idea. Should your friend proceed with selling these items and the worst then happened, a law suit is very likely to follow - quite apart from how they would feel if somebody got hurt. As a minimum, some kind of label or other information sheet should be supplied with each candle holder spelling out the safety steps to be taken.

Does anyone have any empirical evidence that a candle holder can be set alight by a tea light candle (complete with its thin metal case) burning right down? I would have thought the metal would offer a fair degree of protection, so unless the flame was being blown towards the surrounding wood, or the hole for the tea light was too deep, there would be a very low risk - but I'm prepared to change my mind if someone has experience of the issue.

Offline Bill21

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2023, 12:01:03 PM »


Does anyone have any empirical evidence that a candle holder can be set alight by a tea light candle (complete with its thin metal case) burning right down? I would have thought the metal would offer a fair degree of protection, so unless the flame was being blown towards the surrounding wood, or the hole for the tea light was too deep, there would be a very low risk - but I'm prepared to change my mind if someone has experience of the issue.

This occurred to me. As tea lights already come in a metal case I’m not sure why additional precautions are required. I suppose thought that some tea light casings could be very thin and likely to not offer much protection?

Safer all round I suppose to use a glass or more robust metal receptacle for them.

Online Twisted Trees

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #5 on: October 16, 2023, 02:49:04 PM »

This occurred to me. As tea lights already come in a metal case I’m not sure why additional precautions are required. I suppose thought that some tea light casings could be very thin and likely to not offer much protection?

Safer all round I suppose to use a glass or more robust metal receptacle for them.

I did experiment with a Brass 1" candle insert in a pine candle stick allowing it to burn down into the insert.

Test 1 was with a soy dinner candle that had a pool of molten wax that extinguished the flame when the candle wick got below the top of the holder, all good wood was warm to the touch but no charring and no fire.

Test 2 was a paraffin wax candle that stayed alight down at the level of the holder long enough to cause the wood to blacken and eventually catch fire.

Obvious really that flame heat and wood are not a great combo to be left unattended in the house (my test was in the middle of a cleared concrete floor of my workshop, and I was watching it)

Certainly both candles were perfectly safe if extinguished before they reached the holder, and the standard warning signs for candles should cover this. BUT a tea light that is in a drilled hole in a flammable material made from a high heat wax is not in sufficient insulation to prevent it scorching and possibly igniting the holder. I mostly don't make candle holders any more but if I do I prefer a metal dish with a spike to fit the candle, or a glass liner for tea lights.

5 volt LED's are a much better option for makers in my opinion.

The original question does raise another thought though. As a maker I can make table lamps and sell them at a craft fair type place (in the UK) without certification or PAT testing them (sure that should be PA testing!) as long as I only sell 4, once I put 5 on sale the rules change. The opening question was about a shop not a maker selling items and that may change the labelling and other requirements, probably worth a direct question from the shop to trading standards for specific advice.

TT, AKA Pete, but that name is taken :-)

Offline Wood spinner

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2023, 06:22:35 PM »
Flame and dry wood , What could possibly go wrong  :o

Offline BrianH

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2023, 11:51:14 AM »
A firefighter died in a Stevenage high rise a few years ago. The cause? A tea light left burning on top of a TV set.
That's plenty enough for me not to put tea light holders up for sale.
Brian

Offline Duncan A

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2023, 01:52:52 PM »
From the Devon and Somerset fire and rescue service website:
"Tea lights are high risk because they have a foil outer container, which can get extremely hot and melt the surfaces underneath. Make sure you put tea lights in suitable holders that are non-flammable."
Good advice
 Duncan

Offline Wood spinner

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2023, 07:33:51 PM »
"Make sure you put tea lights in suitable holders that are non-flammable."

Before using them put them in a metal dustbin , Better safe than sorry.

Offline Bill21

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #10 on: October 17, 2023, 08:27:27 PM »
I agree Pete, the LED ones are pretty good and so much safer!  ;D

Offline Richard_C

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #11 on: October 18, 2023, 03:26:14 PM »
I have seen reports of tealights melting through plastic, one happened locally a few years ago - fire brigade said it was tealight on a television.  I suspect the consequent fire was when the aluminium of the tealight fell into the higher voltage bits inside the set.  Pity it was in an upstairs bedroom and the house was thatched.   Not sure about getting wood alight, scorched maybe, but flames?

As a maker you can only go so far because you have no control over what the purchaser does with the product.  You could label them "for use with LED lights only", and "do not leave unattended" but if the buyer later chooses to put real ones in and go down the pub or coffee shop you can't stop them.  Just like that long, heavy narrow necked vase you sold, nothing to stop the purchaser holding it by the neck and using the heavy end to bludgeon some poor innocent, or leave it on a shelf where a toddler can pull it down and hurt themselves.  We can't prevent the end users malfeasance nor overcome their potential for stupidity.  You just do your best.

I suppose an ideal design would be if LED tealights were slightly smaller diamater than the wax ones, then if you made the recess the right size for LED people couldn't misuse them.  But unless they exist, safer all round to fit a metal holder. Some suppliers want silly money but you do see them around at about 50p each if you buy 12.  A nice looking metal holder though could be a fair proportion of the likely sale proceeds  if you are doing it commercially unless you are able to get top-end prices.  Maybe its not an ideal woodturning product. 

Offline Dave Wraight

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2023, 10:33:29 AM »
If you follow this link which was updated less than a week ago the guidance is there from the people who know. I have been abused in the past at craft fairs for stating the obvious about t-lights and bare wood so no longer make comment!

https://firerisk.co.uk/top-10-tips-for-candle-fire-safety/

Online Twisted Trees

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Re: Tea Lights in wood
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2023, 10:58:51 AM »
If you follow this link which was updated less than a week ago the guidance is there from the people who know. I have been abused in the past at craft fairs for stating the obvious about t-lights and bare wood so no longer make comment!

https://firerisk.co.uk/top-10-tips-for-candle-fire-safety/
Perfect, puts all the responsibility on the person that lights the candles and gives a free pass to turners and shops alike  ;D
TT, AKA Pete, but that name is taken :-)