Author Topic: Scalloped bowl - another method  (Read 4511 times)

Offline fuzzyturns

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #15 on: April 19, 2019, 01:59:52 AM »
So now we have a nice conversation going about two topics: firstly, the scalloped bowl and secondly, the etiquette of this forum. May I gently point out that there's no point having a forum if members cannot speak their mind. This goes for George, but it also goes for Will. Will had the courage to post an experiment, and as we all know, more often than not. they don't come out right on the first attempt. He still deserves some credit for posting it here, so that others might pick on it and maybe help him get it right ( if Thomas Edison would have tried to sell his very first light bulb, that wouldn't have gone very well, either!).
And George had the courage to express his mind freely, something we should not attempt to subdue. He may well be a little blunt, but on occasion so am I. And I think Will is showing the right spirit in embracing this, and maybe he will try again. Having said that, George does have a point here: you are attempting something that more experienced guys would probably have shied away from, knowing the difficulties. Don't take this the wrong way, but there's an old saying: fools rush in where angels fear to tread. This may well apply here.

Offline willstewart

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #16 on: April 19, 2019, 08:38:56 AM »
Thanks all - this was a try as my notes said.  I am now motivated to try again!

One afterthought - given the difficulty of clamping this awkward shape I did originally experiment with CA (superglue) on a test sample, but as always it did not work for me - the joint is very weak.  But I use CA with an activator for pen coatings with good results, so I have subsequently tested it for a sanded-surface wood joint by coating CA on one surface and spraying the other with activator just before assembly.  This seems to work well and is perhaps obvious - maybe this is what everybody else does! 

Offline Twisted Trees

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #17 on: April 19, 2019, 09:08:46 AM »
Yes, Activator on one side CA on the other is the standard way of making miter joints in moldings, and works for any hard to hod joint. Consider using a standard woodglue on 75% of the joint with CA and Activator top and bottom as a glue clamp!

On the subject of the thread, there are many reasons for switching on a lathe, some like to turn out a set of stair spindles in quick time, others like to make a variety of wooden implements and constantly switch from spindle to bowl, some make utility others art.

In my humble opinion the finest reason for turning the lathe on is to make shavings and dust, it is a mental exercise that  calms and pleases me, sometimes to the detriment of the bit that is left on the lathe at the end of a day.

I agree with George on the faults in the finished piece, and I have a pizza oven outside my workshop where similar items have often ended up before my sentimental wife can claim it despite the flaws. But I also agree with Will making an attempt at something unique and different, I like the idea, and am inspired by your work wont be for a while as I don't have the time to dedicate to it, but I am going to have a go at something similar in principle, so thank you for the idea.
TT, AKA Pete, but that name is taken :-)

Offline John Plater

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #18 on: April 19, 2019, 10:38:00 AM »
Yes, two strings to one thread as has been stated. I think that the sentiment of the initial reply may have merit but the wrong set of words have been used. Destructive rather than constructive. That said I have never been a fan of non verbal communication, too much meaning is lost and it is too easy to infer meanings in the written word which may not have been in the mind of the author. That's why I don't use social media at all and this forum is the only one I contribute to as some sort of pay back for the inspiration I take from it. On that point I have enjoyed seeing Will's contributions for the freshness and originality of thinking he/she brings to our craft. I agree, there are lots of reasons for switching on the machine and for some it is the intellectual challenge as well as the practical hands on stuff allied with a willingness to share it. Long may it continue.
ATB John
If I had a better lathe, I would be able to show my ineptitude more effectively.

Offline willstewart

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #19 on: April 19, 2019, 12:33:23 PM »
Thanks again (& I agree about shavings - contrary to some books almost all wood shavings have an interesting distinct scent.  They are also great for allotment paths). 

I attach a pic of the quite pleasing ring stage of another more careful attempt - a much more uniform 5mm thickness, still not quite perfect because of the centring.  I do have a gauge for this but in practice finger-and-thumb is more sensitive!

The knot is placed so it will not appear in the final piece.

Offline willstewart

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #20 on: April 20, 2019, 05:45:42 PM »
Another try - still not perfect although the CA joints are mostly tight.  This one is deliberately smaller and deeper (from a similar ring).  In fact I think this probably a mistake.  The slight asymmetry and the slight open joint from an issue with the sanding jig that I know how to fix. No finish on this example.

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #21 on: April 20, 2019, 07:38:10 PM »
Have to admire the patience that you have in pursuing this. I have seen these made before but they were initially hand carved then the measurements used to transfer to a cnc lathe. The eventual bowls sold for £650. Doing it the hard way as you are demands respect.

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #22 on: April 22, 2019, 09:17:40 AM »
I have been away for a few days so missed the start of this thread, I wonder if you were to use the lost wood technique if you were to have a better result? So cut the joints to glue together but place a sacrificial piece inbetween each piece and then using wood glue glue them together with paper inbetween. Mount on the lathe and turn and then break the joints apart and clean up the residual paper and glue them back together again. I would avoid the use of CA glue when sticking bits together, CA dries brittle and there fore there is no flexibility in it so when the wood starts to expand and contract with the take up and release of moisture the joints will break down. A PVA is stil probably one of the best glues to use.
As for George's comments, if we had all been stood in the pub looking at this piece and George made that remark we would all have laughed and gone"Oh George!" So comments should not be taken out of context, as an apprentice if I got it wrong I would get knocked about the head with a lump of wood and I can say in all honesty that that did hurt, so words just bounce off .

Offline Simon_M

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #23 on: April 22, 2019, 10:58:09 PM »
I would burn it .
The joints are realy bad and it is obviously poorly made.
A lot of improvement needed

Regards George
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Offline Simon_M

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #24 on: April 22, 2019, 11:51:58 PM »
This is a new try at a scalloped bowl
This reminds me of my first attempt with making a segmented bowl where pieces seem to go effortlessly together to create a perfect ring! Stacking the rings and aligning them was the next problem to solve (more jigs).

To make your bowl like this, of course, you first have to sort out the joints.

The problem: if you had started with a piece of accurately planned all round timber, do you have a way to accurately cut six trapezoidal triangles that fit together perfectly like your petals (no)?

The solution: to make a "Jerry Bennett" type jig for cutting segments and then devise a way to use it, whilst also holding your six petals, so as to make perfectly (effortless) accurate cuts.

It makes sense to master the cutting technique with flat timber before going to the trouble of shaping it e.g. creating a hoop that's later cut into perfect triangles.

If you take accurately planned all round timber and add a bevel to one of the long sides, this can be used like the "reference" top edge of your petals, to perfect the technique.

Providing you can perfect the cuts to construct six bevelled triangles that fit together perfectly, using this "reference' top edge, then you will also have a method to cut and assemble your petals.

NB I found that the best way to make segments that fit together into a solid ring was to cut the first edge and then deliberately cut more off than necessary on the second cut. Although this makes a smaller diameter ring, you are much more likely to have the segments come together to a perfect point. When cutting segments, a trapezoidal triangle is created when the angle of the table saw is deliberately moved away from 90 degrees. The same thing can be used to cut the two angled edges of each petal. Have you considered making the petals from contrasting dark and light woods e.g. joint two pieces of wood before creating the "donor" hoop and later mixing them up?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2019, 01:35:42 AM by Simon_M »

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #25 on: April 24, 2019, 07:08:05 PM »
One of the things I have made is a fine adjustor for my guillotine, I can cut perfect angles every time now.

Offline willstewart

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Re: Scalloped bowl - another method
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2019, 11:35:34 AM »
Definitely the last go!  Not perfect but not awful.

I had originally intended, & still may, use stain here.  A test piece on an attempt that did not work shown - this is a rough visual guide and not intended as a final piece!