Author Topic: Safety?  (Read 3143 times)

Offline Mike313

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Safety?
« on: December 22, 2018, 11:07:00 PM »
Hi one and all,
I've been occupying myself this evening by watching YouTube videos while SWMBO is out visiting . . .
The video I've been watching is put out by Record Power on the subject of using the Record Coronet Herald lathe.
I'll put a link below.
The point that worries me in the video starts about 7mimutes in, where he is talking about all the safety measures he is taking BUT:
He has no face shield;
He is standing with one hand either side of the blank (i.e. if it came adrift, it is GUARANTEED to hit him) as he increases the speed.
I thought you were supposed to stand to one side, 'out of the line of fire'?.
Am I being over-critical? After all, this man is a professional, I am a lowly beginner ???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nP4q3j0sqFY

Offline seventhdevil

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2018, 11:31:21 PM »
undoubtedly the million and one different answers will now be given to these questions which will only confuse you more.

in my opinion there are many things in that video that people will find unsafe but also there will be people who thing that it's too safe.

his techniques will differ too and i personally think he has a bit of an odd way (underhand grip and not using the tool rest as a guide for his cut as i do) to round the blank but that's just me. he also turns too slowly for me but that's a whole other debate as it depends on the weight of the lathe.

ultimately it will just come down to what you find comfortable doing yourself as to whether you deem it safe or not. use common sense and your experience at the lathe to make these judgements. it can be good to be critical as a newbie as you will learn by questioning others what is right for you but as you say he is a professional and still seems in one piece so he must be doing something right.

Offline Sandy

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #2 on: December 23, 2018, 08:14:07 AM »
Hi Mike

I think it's good to keep H&S in mind at all times and also to have a critical eye on how others work and use tools and equipment as that way we learn and reinforce good practice or question what we think is poor practice.

I watched the clip and although Andrew didn't mention it, like most demonstrators I think Andrew might have left his face shield off to allow for clarity of speech.  He did wear safety specs though.  I do see many turners who don't even do that or rely on their 'normal' specs to protect their eyes rather than prescription safety specs or wearing safety specs over their normal specs.

Andrew did stand in front of the timber as you say, but it was a solid blank which he'd pre-checked, it was captured between the chuck and the tailstock and he did run it up to speed slowly from standstill.

I very much liked the fact that Andrew locked the quill after each adjustment, which I don't see demonstrators do that often.

Unlike seventhdevil, I didn't see "many things that people will find unsafe" and in general I thought Andrew was continually covering safety points throughout the recording.

On the subject of face shields, I went to the Turn East event this year and watched a demonstration where the demonstrator recommended a particular make of face shield and after buying one for around £30 I now wear it constantly.  Its predecessor was approx £10 and I didn't wear it that much unless the timber was a bit questionable, relying on my safety specs.  The new face shield is much more functional and comfortable and so is now in constant use (unless I have my Airshield on).  A very good buy and so my gratitude to the demonstrator for giving his opinion at the demo (I haven't named him in case he would prefer me not to but I enjoyed his demonstration too :)).

 

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2018, 09:50:37 AM »
As a professional turner and the H&S person I would like to tell you that everything I do on the lathe is 100% safe............I would like to tell you that but the truth is I know I do things that others would consider unsafe or not so safe. I hate to keep banging on about it but each and every one of us is responsible for our own safety and that of others. There are ways and means when you have the experience, that allows you to produce work, quicker or more accurately or better designed or easier, these methods are up to the individual to choose. Every day we all carry out risk assessments without knowing it,is it safe to cross the road? can I drive a bit faster? can I get away with fours hours in the workshop? that sort of thing,we do it without realising it.I have not seen the video but from comments I understand the person demonstrating is a professional turner,he will have risk assessed before starting up the lathe.

Offline David Buskell

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #4 on: December 23, 2018, 11:46:46 AM »
Mike313, there are other resources than YouTube that we can point you to.

For example, the AAW (American Association of Woodturners) have an AAWVideosource facility on their website,http://aawvideosource.org/php/video_detail_view.php where each video has been reviewed to ensure it meets safety standards or if not, then a comment is made against that video, saying why it does not. You can then al least rest assured that what you are seeing is safe in line with best practice.

In all instances, you should ensure you are working as safely as possible, taking into account the size of the timber, the size/weight of your lathe and of course, your level of ability.
David
At The Cutting Edge

Offline burywoodturners

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #5 on: December 23, 2018, 04:16:36 PM »
I have had to stop one demonstrator from using a roughing out gouge on a faceplate, he said he had done this for years!

Offline Wooddust

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #6 on: December 23, 2018, 04:46:24 PM »
I have had to stop one demonstrator from using a roughing out gouge on a faceplate, he said he had done this for years!

what is the problem in doing this?

Offline Walnut Les

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #7 on: December 23, 2018, 06:42:38 PM »
I have had to stop one demonstrator from using a roughing out gouge on a faceplate, he said he had done this for years!

what is the problem in doing this?

The spindle roughing out gouge is too weak if you get a dig in or a bad catch you will bend or break the tool.

It other words it should only be used for spindle work and not used for bowls or anything else.
It was bad practice for a demonstrator to be using it this way as other turners could try it and get hurt.
« Last Edit: December 23, 2018, 06:47:15 PM by Walnut Les »

Offline Sandy

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2018, 06:58:38 PM »
The roughing spindle gouge, also known as the RSG, is manufactured from flat stock so has a tang which fits into the handle (as with metal files) and is a lot thinner and smaller than that of a bowl gouge which has a round bar to fit in the handle.

This type of gouge is to be used on spindle work as per its name.

If used on 'faceplate' work such as bowl blanks it will cut side and end grain twice each rotation and may skip and dig twice with each rotation.  RSG's also have a straight-across grind and so has two wings close to and in the same plane as the cutting edge that potentially would cause a big dig-in anytime. 

So there is a very real risk of a massive dig-in, where the tang would be the weakest part of the tool and could quite easily fracture or shear away completely from the handle with severe consequences.

Consideration of these safety points should be applied to all faceplate work and not just bowl blanks before starting to turn and reaching for the RSG.
 
Does this help or confuse?

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2018, 07:49:53 PM »
Mike I have just watched part of this video. I have to say that th wearing of a faceshield is not compulsory, Andrew is wearing safety glasses to protect his eyes from foreign bodies but also when you watch the video he starts the lathe up very slowly and places his right hand to feel the vibration, he explains this very well. There is no chance of the blank coming off the lathe at that stage.You will also note that he has brought up the tail stock as a further safeguard. I actually think that he has taken all of the sensible precautions ,and I do not mean this in a disparaging way but on your own admission you are a beginner, as you gain experience you will realise the things you can and cannot do. (for instance I am a toucher, always touching the wood I am working on, lesser experienced turners do not like to touch the wood as they deem that as dangerous) so I would say to you that the fact you are observing these things is good but bear in mine the experience of the person demonstrating.

Offline Mark Hancock

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #10 on: December 24, 2018, 11:27:57 AM »
I've refrained from commenting on this video in the hope that someone would raise what I consider to be a major safety issue. It doesn't relate to the turner but to the lathe and it's design. If you view from about 37:30 to about 39:00 the headstock has been swivelled round. I'm a big fan of swivel headstock lathes and have always had these type of lathes for the last 30 years. However with all of mine I can easily access the on/off switch. With the lathe shown access to the switch is on the opposite side of the work on the lathe to the operator. Not an ideal situation should the lathe need to be stopped quickly. A mobile switch box would easily resolve the issue.

Offline Les Symonds

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #11 on: December 24, 2018, 12:02:14 PM »
....If you view from about 37:30 to about 39:00 the headstock has been swivelled round...
....but surely, with a fixed position for the switchgear, it has been the case that the switch has been behind the faceplate/chuck throughout the turning process, so why is it dangerous for just this 2mins 30secs. IF this is a safety issue, then it must also relate to when the headstock is in any position. It's not that I disagree with the principle; I have a switchbox on my Maxi which can be moved to a convenient position, and I'd find the set-up with this lathe inconvenient, to say the least, and can certainly see that there could be times when its safety might be compromised.

Les
Education is important, but wood turning is importanter.

Offline Mark Hancock

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #12 on: December 24, 2018, 12:08:04 PM »
....If you view from about 37:30 to about 39:00 the headstock has been swivelled round...
....but surely, with a fixed position for the switchgear, it has been the case that the switch has been behind the faceplate/chuck throughout the turning process, so why is it dangerous for just this 2mins 30secs. IF this is a safety issue, then it must also relate to when the headstock is in any position. It's not that I disagree with the principle; I have a switchbox on my Maxi which can be moved to a convenient position, and I'd find the set-up with this lathe inconvenient, to say the least, and can certainly see that there could be times when its safety might be compromised.

Les
Les
When the headstock is inline with the tailstock the operator tends to be standing to the side of the work and can reach to the left for the switch. Not an ideal situation I agree. With the headstock swivelled the operator tends to be standing in front of the work and then has to reach over or round the work for the switch. Imagine a large diameter platter on the lathe in the swivelled position. The operator may not even be able to see the switch.

Offline burywoodturners

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #13 on: December 24, 2018, 04:10:17 PM »
Quote
With stopping him, or with using the roughing out gouge?

Offline burywoodturners

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Re: Safety?
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2018, 04:13:46 PM »
That was a reference to you query about stopping the demonstrator.
Other posters have explained the problem better than I could.
Ron