Bandsaw shennigans

[SalineMan]

Hi all.
I'm having serious bother with my bandsaw. It is a Hammer N4400 and I bought it three years ago, but have never really got on with it. Frankly it scares me!! Anyway, last week i decided it was time to man up and start using it for projects other than ripping the occasional long lenghts for kindling. I ordered two blades for it last year; a 5/8th" 4tpi and a 1/4" 6tpi. I had used the 5/8th a few times but never really knew if I had it set up properly. Cutting 20mm stock or small bowl blanks produced wild screeches and sparks flying from the back roller. Tracking seemed to be as per the various you tube clips I watched, blade tension set slightly more than the stated indication on the tension scale. All went pretty pete tong when I tried the 1/4" blade. Can't get it to track properly, and the sparks flying issue still very apparent. I checked the co planar situation. It seems that the upper wheel is 20mm closer to the frame than the bottom wheel. If I shim it out, the wheel will foul the door.
I'm clearly making a pigs ear of things and would welcome all and any suggestions.

First prize would be somebody living near me come over and sort me out in exchange for a case of beer!!

I attach images, I have moved the back roller away form the blade to illustrate effects of the sparking.

[GBF]

I expect it is just a case of setting it up.Is there a joinery shop near you.
You are too far from me unfortunately

Regards George

[SalineMan]

Hi George.

Help with the setup is what's needed. Checking local joiners as we speak!!

Thanks

Derek

[happy amateur]

I think this is a very simple and easy to follow
bandsaw setup by Carter tools on youtube

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGbZqWac0jU

Fred

[SalineMan]

Hi Fred.

This was one of the ones that I looked at. Very informative, however in it he states that the whole co-planar thing is to be ignored, whereas other clips I've seen place some emphasis on wheel alignment/co-planar setup. When I try to get the 1/4" blade positioned as he demonstrates and tension the blade sufficiently to prevent a bowed cut, the blade ends up right in the outside edge of the top wheel and back of the bottom wheel, when it then sometimes pops off the wheel altogether!

Thanks for the reply.
Derek

[Roger Groom]

Sounds to me like it is your tracking which is causing the problem. Try adjusting it while turning the wheels by hand and see if the band alters position. Switch off power while doing it.
Roger

[SalineMan]

Hi Roger.

Agreed. The challenge is to understand what needs to be done to correct it. The sparking issue from the rear guides are also perplexing.

God bless

Derek

[Roger Groom]

Alan Holtham has a very good video on YouTube regarding stating up bandsaws. I think that if you get your machine tracked properly the problem will go away. I would also suggest that you either change the roller bearing or at least remove it and reverse it back on so you have a good surface to work with. Go to bearing supplies or the like. Much cheaper. The sparking is most probably due to the bearing having too much pressure on the blade. Should be a fag paper between them.
Roge

[SalineMan]

Hi Roger.

Thanks for that, he's one I haven't seen yet. Good lead on the bearing as well.

God bless.

Derek

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

At the risk of upsetting people, and that is not my intention, this is what happens or can happen when untrained people are allowed to buy woodworking machinery. Woodworking professionals like myself have undergone training on a variety of machines and that training includes setting up aswell as the safe use etc. This is not a dig at amateur users this is more of a dig at suppliers. Are suppliers acting responsibly when they sell a potentially dangerous machine to someone who has not had the correct training. These days you just walk into a shop and buy a spindle moulder set it up and use it in total ignorance of how dangerous it could be, in my day professional wood workers have to have a "spindle ticket" to be able to operate the same machine.
          Saline man I am sorry you are having trouble with your bandsaw,the best thing you can do is pay a professional to show you the correct way of setting up your machines so that you stay safe. I also advise you not to rely on you tube for tuition as most of the users that post on there do not have a clue of the right way of doing things.

[Wood spinner]

Do you have a LONG spirit level one thats about 2mtrs long ?

Hold this against the top wheel so it touches the top and lower sections of the top wheel
12 o clock and 6 o clock

Then have a look where it is in relation to the bottom wheel , should give you a rough idea if it miles out or very near

Is the back bearing where the sparking is coming from free to rotate or seized , Have you rounded off the rear square section of the blade with a small diamond file with the machine running ( CAUTION )

[SalineMan]

At the risk of upsetting people, and that is not my intention, this is what happens or can happen when untrained people are allowed to buy woodworking machinery. Woodworking professionals like myself have undergone training on a variety of machines and that training includes setting up aswell as the safe use etc. This is not a dig at amateur users this is more of a dig at suppliers. Are suppliers acting responsibly when they sell a potentially dangerous machine to someone who has not had the correct training. These days you just walk into a shop and buy a spindle moulder set it up and use it in total ignorance of how dangerous it could be, in my day professional wood workers have to have a "spindle ticket" to be able to operate the same machine.
          Saline man I am sorry you are having trouble with your bandsaw,the best thing you can do is pay a professional to show you the correct way of setting up your machines so that you stay safe. I also advise you not to rely on you tube for tuition as most of the users that post on there do not have a clue of the right way of doing things.

Difficult to argue with you on that point, though to be fair it's not limited to the sale of woodworking equipment. The same may be said of the purchase of powerful motor cars by inexperienced drivers, motorcycles by middle age folk trying to recapture lost youth, chainsaws and hedge trimmers by weekend gardeners etc., the list is a long one. Local searches for professional training has so far yielded nothing substantive. Thanks for you comments.

[GBF]

At the risk of upsetting people, and that is not my intention, this is what happens or can happen when untrained people are allowed to buy woodworking machinery. Woodworking professionals like myself have undergone training on a variety of machines and that training includes setting up aswell as the safe use etc. This is not a dig at amateur users this is more of a dig at suppliers. Are suppliers acting responsibly when they sell a potentially dangerous machine to someone who has not had the correct training. These days you just walk into a shop and buy a spindle moulder set it up and use it in total ignorance of how dangerous it could be, in my day professional wood workers have to have a "spindle ticket" to be able to operate the same machine.
          Saline man I am sorry you are having trouble with your bandsaw,the best thing you can do is pay a professional to show you the correct way of setting up your machines so that you stay safe. I also advise you not to rely on you tube for tuition as most of the users that post on there do not have a clue of the right way of doing things.

As John said
My Brother Chris who is a time served joiner taught me how to set up all off my machinery.

Regards George

[SalineMan]

Do you have a LONG spirit level one thats about 2mtrs long ?

Hold this against the top wheel so it touches the top and lower sections of the top wheel
12 o clock and 6 o clock

Then have a look where it is in relation to the bottom wheel , should give you a rough idea if it miles out or very near

Is the back bearing where the sparking is coming from free to rotate or seized , Have you rounded off the rear square section of the blade with a small diamond file with the machine running ( CAUTION )

Have done this. The top wheel appears to be set back 21mm at top of wheel 16.5mm at bottom edge of top wheel. Were I to remove the wheel and shim it out I doubt I would get the door closed on it as it would protrude over the frame.  The back bearing is free to rotate, I have noticed about 1mm of play where the bearing fits into it's shaft, (picture above). I have rounded off the backs of both blades. I will examine today whether or not I can move the lower drive wheel back in towards the frame. Thanks for your reply.

[GBF]

Don't do that if you are not careful you will be having a nasty accident.
Some of the advise you are getting here is just wrong.
With all due respect you have no idea of what you are doing so take my original advise and find a local joinery shop and ask them if somebody could pop around and help you I am sure they would.

Regards George