Bowl saver - Kelton

[Les Symonds]

Has anybody out there had any experience of the Kelton bowl saver? I'm on the verge of buying one, but would value any input before I take the plunge.

Les

[z3ddie]

Saw a guy using one at a demo - pulled out a bowl in spalted elm in minutes - looked a good piece of kit but even he said unless you are doing a lot of bowls they are a luxury item.  What he did say though was if your trying to make a set from one blank they come into their own, obviously!

[Les Symonds]

Saw a guy using one at a demo - pulled out a bowl in spalted elm in minutes - looked a good piece of kit but even he said unless you are doing a lot of bowls they are a luxury item.  What he did say though was if your trying to make a set from one blank they come into their own, obviously!

....Thanks for that, z3ddie....did you happen to notice what lathe/chuck he was using?
Les

[farmerphil]

I haven't seen the kelton used but have used a friends woodcut bowl saver which is relatively simple to use so long as you are content with hemispherical bowls. He uses Goliath jaws but I have also used similar sized gripper jaws.
Aside from the cost a problem with the woodcut is that Axminster advise at least a 1hp motor power and my sorby lathe is short of that.
I was told the Kelton takes longer to master but you are less constrained on bowl shapes.
Do let us know what you decide and how you get on

Regards

Phil

[GBF]

I have the Kelton and it is easy to use but as somebody said they are a luxury item. Unless you have a blank that is really special they are not worth the bother. I have had mine for about ten years and it has probably been used les that a dozen times.
Mine is used on a Nova but I think with care it could be used on a less powerful lathe. I think you would realistically need at least one HP

Regards George

[Les Symonds]

I have the Kelton and it is easy to use but as somebody said they are a luxury item. Unless you have a blank that is really special they are not worth the bother. I have had mine for about ten years and it has probably been used les that a dozen times.
Mine is used on a Nova but I think with care it could be used on a less powerful lathe. I think you would realistically need at least one HP

Regards George

Thanks, George....I have a Record Maxi with a 1.5 HP motor, so should be ok (it's identical to Mark's lathe), I was more concerned about my chuck, as I have only Patriot chucks, although I do have the 4" deep-grip jaws.
My main reason for wanting a bowl saver is that I've got a large oak burr, about 24" diameter and over a foot deep, plus I also bought an ash trunk, which is 22" diameter and clean as a whistle, so it would make fine nesting bowls.

Les

[Mark Sanger]

I have the Kelton system and use it for coring burrs and larger sections. As with George I don't use it often as I am not into large bowls but even on 250 dia blanks if the wood is worth saving I will core out a small bowl.

The Kelton system is harder to use than the woodcut system but it is more versatile so it will take a little longer to get use to but you have more options in relation to the core shape that can be taken out.

In relation to the lathe you need a fairly powerful lathe the Maxi1 I had was no problem in using it, I used it with the Nova2 chuck but the trick is to use large jaws to give the max strength in the foot as there is a lot of force when cutting, too small a foot and it will break off, I know from experience  

A trick is to rub a stick of bees wax on the side of the cutters which reduces the friction when cutting.

It is an investment of some size however with the Burr ash I recently posted me sat on in the forum, I can say that it the price of the system and the burr itself.

While as I said I don't use it often I would not get rid of mine as it has paid for itself time and time again.

[Mark Sanger]

I have the Kelton and it is easy to use but as somebody said they are a luxury item. Unless you have a blank that is really special they are not worth the bother. I have had mine for about ten years and it has probably been used les that a dozen times.
Mine is used on a Nova but I think with care it could be used on a less powerful lathe. I think you would realistically need at least one HP

Regards George

Thanks, George....I have a Record Maxi with a 1.5 HP motor, so should be ok (it's identical to Mark's lathe), I was more concerned about my chuck, as I have only Patriot chucks, although I do have the 4" deep-grip jaws.
My main reason for wanting a bowl saver is that I've got a large oak burr, about 24" diameter and over a foot deep, plus I also bought an ash trunk, which is 22" diameter and clean as a whistle, so it would make fine nesting bowls.

Les

The Patriot will be fine, it is no smaller than the nova and the 4 inch grip jaws will be fine.

Another technique that helps with the keltons is to 'fish tail' the cutter as you progress in, thus opening out the slot reducing the chance of binding, also stop regularly to remove the shavings as this is critical, set your belt on your lathe to slip if the cutter catch, this will then give you a break if it does indeed bind.

[z3ddie]

Gwytog - the demo I saw was at Axminster Tools so would imagine it was their kit - I have only just started so not as observant as you experienced guys - one thing I did notice though was he mounted the blank first with a woodworm screw, then turned the tenon before mounting onto what looked to me like a small geared chuck for the size of the wood and knocked out the first bowl very quickly indeed, cant remember his surname but I think he was a Kiwi called Phil - an excellent demonstrator who was there for the skills show not sales.  He spent a lot of time talking about the technique for stopping and sharpening, while doing it, while using the jig.

[Graham]

I think Phil Irons has done those demos at Axminster...... He is an Aussie though. 

[z3ddie]

Thats the guy!

[Derwent Woodturning club]

Hi Les,
I have the Woodcut, as promoted by Phil Irons, but I got mine many years ago when they weren't too expensive. I believe they now cost around £270!! so that would be quite an outlay if you buy one.

I would also repeat the comments from earlier posters, that it creates hemispherical blanks so limits the final shape of your bowls.

I am just wondering if you would like to borrow mine, but you are some distance away. Only problem with that is mine is fitted to a 1" toolpost. What size is yours? PM me if you want to discuss this further.

[David Buskell]

Les,
I have the Kelton which came as one of the accessories when I bought a pre-owned VB.. It's an old Mk IV version but still cuts. The system does take some time getting used to and there are plenty of videos out there plus the Mike Mahoney video. Mike makes it look so easy - sat about 10 foot away from him at a demo and his system cut through the wood like a hot knife in butter.

If all that fails, drop an email to kelton Tools and you might get a call back from Kel McNaughton who will talk you through your problem with the system.

At the end of the day, it's a cost/benefit decision: if you have sufficient use for the Kelton, then it's a good buy. The Toolpost are now the Uk distributors and have dropped the prices (I think) but talk to Peter and he'll give you the latest info.
David

[GBF]

Another case of me opening my mouth without putting my brain in gear the system I have is the Woodcut and it is very easy to use and I would recommend it.

Regards George

[Paul Hannaby]

I have both the Kelton and Woodcut systems. You're more than welcome to come and try out both or either if it helps but I know I'm not exactly down the road from you!

Of the two, I think the Kelton is more versatile and with the additional ranges of cutters, covers a wider range of sizes/curves but the Woodcut is slightly easier to use and set up. I used to use the Kelton with a 1hp lathe and didn't have any problems. I've used the Woodcut on a 0.75hp lathe.

Although either system is expensive, I would say they have paid for themselves over and over again with multiple cores from burrs etc. so if you make use of them, they are worth it. You want a deep tenon with large-ish jaws to avoid it breaking off.

As Mark S mentioned, the fish tailing technique helps with the Kelton. I also add a little wax to the guide posts to help the tool slide through.

One thing to bear in mind, it's the depth of the blank that dictates how many cores you can get out of as well as the diameter. If you're in to making picture frames, you can also take a core of the back of the bowl to produce a ring.