Is it me? I hope not!

[bodrighywood]

It isn't just wood turning, Mo makes sterling silver jewellery using semi precious stones, coral, pearls etc and makes some really lovely pieces but has virtually stopped trying to sell through any craft fairs as there is so much cheap beaded stuff that sells for peanuts. I do an event at the American Museum in Bath coming up to Christmas and virtually all of the people there are quality crafters or artists. It is lovely watching people coming in and seeing their faces as they are confronted with the work on display. Literally jaw dropped for some. Wish there were more venues like it.

Pete

[Bryan Milham]

Pete,

I hear what your saying.

One of the events I do has 2 jewellery tables. One is as you say, a few beads strung together, to my eye's, fairly haphazardly.

The other is run by 2 ladies and they weave beads into wonderful designs, I even bought one for SWMBO.

A couple of shows ago we got onto the pricing of work as a discussion, I explained about wood cost + time + etc. = my price. They were amazed, some of their pieces can take 15+ hours to make and as you can guess, their prices don't equate to an equivalent cost/time.

[Les Symonds]

Wish there were more venues like it.

A little over a year ago I joined a craft association, based on the info they gave out, which declared that all members had to manufacture their own work - nothing bought in etc. They claimed that standards would be set very high and only quality work would be displayed/sold at their craft fairs. I had to go through a vetting process, with samples of my work being submitted for the selection committee's examination. I got in, then visited one of their fairs. What a disappointment - the fair was a washout and was pretty much populated by stands selling low quality, low skilled work. Yes, there was the odd stand selling better stuff, but much of it was made using industrial processes. On a day when the town in which the fair was held was bustling with locals and thousands of tourists, the craft fair was desperately quiet. Either people weren't bothering to even look, or they were getting as far as the door, gazing in and moving on. Needless to say, I did not renew my membership.

So what point am I making.....it's this....when a so-called high-quality craft association gets it this wrong, we've got quite a struggle on our hands to change attitudes. I agree wholeheartedly with Richard's discussion about the change in use of the term 'Craftsman', but we must accept that language is dynamic. In all walks of life we see terminology changing as the next generation comes along and misuses a word, which then becomes commonplace in its new meaning, and consequently inappropriate in its former meaning. When I was in teacher training college, back in the 70s, pupils with what we now call a Learning Disability were then called 'Educationally Sub Normal'. At the time it was not an offensive term, but it fell into misuse, became offensive and thus had to change. Perhaps we should release the term 'Craft' and concentrate on the term 'Art' - or at least until that term becomes misused and ends up meaning something quite different.

Les

[bodrighywood]

It is very hard to differentiate between art and craft and I am not sure that we should try. Turners such as Richard are highly skilled and perfectly capable of making artistic pieces as far as the skill level is concerned but it isn't where he chooses to go. To my mind the work that he does with his renovation and replication is every bit as valuable as anything done by an 'artistic' turner. I personally feel that part of the problem is that we are all guilty of down playing the skill and ingenuity needed to create in wood.  I would guess that the vast majority of people who don't do wood turning in this country are pretty ignorant of the fact that it is even done. I am for ever being asked at shows "Do you make this yourself?" despite having a banner saying "Bodrighy Wood, Wood Turner."  If we go to a gallery to try and get our work there do we go with a cap in hand attitude trying to persuade the owner to stock it or do we go looking to see if the gallery is fit to have our work? Arrogant? Not really when you see the sort of thing that is often in galleries. Whether you call yourself an artist, a crafts person or both, as a wood turner you are someone who creates, be proud of it and let Joe Public know that it is something special.

Oops now I am ranting LOL. 

[Graham]

be proud of it and let Joe Public know that it is something special.

Words to work by,  IMHO

[Rlewisrlou666]

I have a Bachelor of Arts Degree so that in itself qualifies me as an Artist but I don't class myself an Artist.

If you display your work in an "Art" Gallery for sale you are an Artist no if, and, buts or maybes whether you choose to call yourself that or dislike the title.

Sorry if that seems a bit harsh but displaying your work in that setting automatically puts you in that category.

My Art is Digital Games and although they have only just been recognised as an art form in the last couple of years people have been making beautiful artwork in Games since they started making Games in the 60's.

It is hard to decide what is classified as art.



Anyone know this guy?

Mr Damien Hirst and his $122'000'000 Diamond Encrusted Skull is deemed by many as the pinnacle of art but its nothing more than a Human Skull with Diamonds Stuck on it.

Is it Art? To most it is.

It is a beautiful piece but I wouldn't say it is art, Well not in the same way that I would call a Da'Vinci or a Van Gough or a Monet art.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and that is true for all Art and even in Nature, A little known fact for you.

Did you know that no-one ever sees the same rainbow? Not even stood side by side with your faces pressed together.

The light refracts at different rates so from every angle the colours appear slightly different.

Slightly off topic and long winded but my point is everyone has a different view of art.

Sorry for the rant and sorry if I offended anyone.

Ryan

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Ooh! ooh! that makes me an artist then. So Ryan, you of all people (well the ones here anyway) should be able to tell us how to get woodturning accepted as art (should this be on another thread?) Can someone be an artist without any qualifications? and if so does that p*** you off 'cos you studied to be one? The same way as anyone that has a hammer can call them selves a carpenter without having to serve an apprenticeship.

[bodrighywood]

Art surely comes from the imagination, the thought that goes into a piece as much as the skill in doing it? As Ryan says tastes differ and we don't all like the same sort of thing. I love oriental work (in general not all of it) and am not keen on some of the so called art work like DH's. One of my friends is one of the countries top furniture designers and his work is amazingly innovative, he can't draw for toffee though and has to get someone to do the sketches and the drawings for him. Who is the 'artist' him or the one who draws it for him? I may be wrong here but I think that most people could go to college and learn to draw or paint but being able to do it in a way that uses imagination and is something special is something that not everyone has. Within woodturning I think that it is a case of promoting the things we do as art, as something of beauty that is the hard part and yet something that we all need to do. How many of us promote our work to anyone other than other turners or wood workers?

Seeing some of the pieces you are making now John I would say that you are certainly veering towards the artistic side though your background is very much that of the craftsman.

Pete

[Rlewisrlou666]

I don't call myself an Artist I make things that I enjoy making not for other people to enjoy although it is a nice feeling to have good feedback.
I do it because it's fun and it keeps my mind occupied.

I personally would define Woodturning as an Art but it has to be accepted by the masses as Art, best way to do that is to plaster it everywhere and have it shared worldwide.

If you roughly turn a log into something that resembles a candle stick that wouldn't be classed as Art.



But if you took 45 different species of wood and glued them individually into a blank, then painstakingly turned it down over many hours/days/weeks into a very beautiful, decorative, intricate candlestick it then becomes more like Art. Or at least it would be viewed by a wider audience as Art you'd still have the Nay sayers that would call it just a lump of wood.



If any of you know of Banksy the Graffiti Artist his work is stunning for something that is still considered to this day to be vandalism.
Some of his pieces have been removed/stolen wall and all to be sold at auction. Then you have the Vandals who write obscenity on walls and call it Graffiti.
All Art Forms have both good and bad, Good and Bad in both the work and the Artists themselves.



I don't get annoyed by anyone who considers themselves an Artist I say good on you and if you work is visually appealing I will congratulate you on a job well done.
What does P*** me off though is Artist's trained or untrained that are complete pompous A-Holes who think that they are better than everyone else.
There is no need for it and the world could do without people like that in my opinion.

I am just me and I don't consider myself more or less than anyone else regardless of who they are.
My skill level may be the higher than Joe public or lower then very talented Guys and Gals on here but that doesn't make me a better or worse person it makes me human.

Sorry for high jacking the original post these views are my personal opinion and again sorry if I offend anyone.

Ryan

[Les Symonds]

Sorry for high jacking the original post these views are my personal opinion and again sorry if I offend anyone.

Ryan

Not at all, Ryan....it's a valid comment and it's certainly in keeping with the general theme of the thread. thanks for your views.
Les

[burywoodturners]

A couple of years ago I applied for a lottery grant for my woodturning club. We were turned down because our work was deemed to be "Art" and advised to apply to the Arts Council for support, I have lost count of  the number of other woodturning clubs with a lottery grant I have seen in the Woodturner
Ron

[woodndesign]

If you roughly turn a log into something that resembles a candle stick that wouldn't be classed as Art.




Sorry for high jacking the original post these views are my personal opinion and again sorry if I offend anyone.

Ryan

They've not got liners ...    ...

[bodrighywood]

If you roughly turn a log into something that resembles a candle stick that wouldn't be classed as Art.




Sorry for high jacking the original post these views are my personal opinion and again sorry if I offend anyone.

Ryan

They've not got liners ...    ...

I saw that but bit my tongue LOL

Pete

[Rlewisrlou666]

There not mine guys just found them online and used to image to help my point.

[woodndesign]

The original question as raised was quality and the outlet selling, firstly the outlet involved, as later highlighted more a general mixed gift/coffee shop and more varied on the goods for sell, good & bad, and possibly an interest in making a small profit as well as filling a gap and offering a service to diplay items for those wishing to sell what they make. Case is what do you do if committed to supplying them and their standards or regard to quality drops. How likely is it to effect what they sell of your work if at all.

The second extreme case as John BHT found was 'I deal in £600+ items' with a Gallery, did He stop to check the quality or worth of the said £600+ items.

As depicted in the (I hope are internet stock) pictures are candle holders without liners, as often mentions these are seen being on sale. At best it would be with both concern for safety, if not on quality, it should be brought up with the Seller there and then as to where you're failing to comply with safety alone.  It is most unlikely as it gets debated here, as on any Forum that this individual will ever read nor get to know of the unsafe items they're try to sell nor quality, pricing etc etc

Should we find something we consider as being wrong, for the interest of the advancement of Turning we'd need to express that concern.

Cheers David