Author Topic: Is it me? I hope not!  (Read 13121 times)

Offline Les Symonds

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3273
    • Pren
Is it me? I hope not!
« on: November 05, 2014, 09:02:35 AM »
I'm not sure where i want this thread to go - perhaps I just need a rant, but lets see what happens next.

I sell a small amount of stock through an outlet that is owned and operated by a national organisation that set firm standards when I first approached them. When I turned up with my first batch of stock ( just 7 items, as I recall) they were a bit skeptical about the price that I was charging, saying that I was probably pricing myself out of their market. Sales are steady, but slow, which is sort-of ok, because I'm not able to produce a lot of stock whilst I'm on the road to recovery after the accident, and it gets my stuff out there where it will hopefully be noticed.

So here's the rant! On the weekend we visited the venue and were shocked by what we saw on sale. Pete M. J. is going to love this bit....tea-light candleholders made by simply sawing 3" logs into 4" lengths, and drilling a shallow hole in one end, just big enough for the tea-light to sit in. OK, it's not in direct breach of fire-safety regs because the aluminium pot provides the non-flamable material that the law requires, but you ask any fire-safety officer what he/she thinks, and you'll be told in no uncertain terms. And guess what; they were priced at around £10 each.
Next came oak chopping boards, I hate that one! One of them was a simple, waney edged piece of oak, about 10" x 10" and 1" thick. The pith was running along one surface and the board had cupped severely, such that it if you put it flat on the shelf, the edges almost laid flat (it had also twisted), but the centre-line was over 1" up in the air. At each of the 4 corners was a hole and there were 2 pieces of twine threaded through, one at each end, as carrying handles. It was £50, all but a penny.
On another shelf there was a beautiful painting of 2 birds on a waney edged piece of board. It really was a fine piece and skilfully painted. However, the artist felt the need to call it a clock, so he'd stuck a quartz mechanism behind it and glued a 4", bright-and-shiny brass plated chapter ring on to the front, with Roman Numerals - hardly sympathetic to the otherwise-natural feel of the piece. The hands were even worse! they were bright-and-shiny brass plated, Serpentine hands, but they were for an 8" clock face. The flipping hands (I'm getting cross, now) were so big that the shop manager had to take the battery out of the clock because, whilst sat on the shelf, the hands were too big to go around. I won't tell you how much they were asking....it's immoral.

None of this makes any sense to me!

Les
Education is important, but wood turning is importanter.

Offline bodrighywood

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3631
    • Bodrighy Wood
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #1 on: November 05, 2014, 09:30:01 AM »
Welcome to the works of the crafting junk makers Les. T light holders without a glass or metal insert are very dangerous, chopping boards in oak are going to go black very quickly unless the user has not steel knives, clocks, if made with good quality mechanisms and hands are going to be expensive but so many are made with the cheap stuff. The hands are flimsy and bend easily, and like your example many are made to be twee. If it were me I would take my work out of the outlet and tell them that I don't want my work associated with that sort of junk. I would probably be a bit more diplomatic than that though....just. One of the reasons I don't do craft fairs is because so many are full of that sort of work. One I used to do had a wood turner who did nothing but bowls, all the same shape, decent quality workmanship but they were being sold for less than the cost of the wood quite often. Oh how I wish I had the money to set up a decent quality gallery which sold only top quality work and design.

Yep you're right Les, I love it LOL

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Rlewisrlou666

  • Guest
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #2 on: November 05, 2014, 09:32:43 AM »
Wow just Wow.

Offline Graham

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
  • Chairman. www.DidcotTurners.club
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #3 on: November 05, 2014, 09:56:11 AM »
I obviously don't know, but suspect that the owner of this gallery had high hopes of setting up just what Pete describes and then got hit by the fact that you just cannot sell enough  quality stuff to survive.


But i could be wrong.
Regards
Graham
I have learnt the first rule of woodturning.
The internal diameter should never exceed the external width.
Nor the internal depth, the external height.
Does that make me an expert now ?

Offline Les Symonds

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3273
    • Pren
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #4 on: November 05, 2014, 12:06:42 PM »
I obviously don't know, but suspect that the owner of this gallery .....
I obviously don't want to identify the premises, but this is not a gallery. It is in a small complex of facilities, including a cafe, information centre, souvenir shop, etc. There is some good quality stuff there, but I just cannot get over the tat that some people try to pass off as quality craft/art work.
Les
Education is important, but wood turning is importanter.

Rlewisrlou666

  • Guest
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2014, 12:34:33 PM »
Sometimes you get people that look at something and say "I can do that it's easy!"

More often than not they can't but they sell them anyway to people who know no better.

I have been shown some items in person that I thought looked very unfinished, The person was super proud of them though.

I wouldn't have been but I'm just anal and over critical of my own work.

Ryan

Offline Les Symonds

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3273
    • Pren
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2014, 01:46:53 PM »
I'm just anal and over critical of my own work.

...and that's not a bad thing. It's just a shame that there are people out there who have such a low expectation of quality that they are happy to settle for less. Keep being anally critical, Ryan.
Les
Education is important, but wood turning is importanter.

Offline Bryan Milham

  • Administrator
  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 4500
  • I’ve had my patience tested; I’m negative
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #7 on: November 05, 2014, 01:58:31 PM »
Les,

I think we are all 100% behind your rant. We've all seen some of the stuff sometimes cobbled together and sold in that sort of outlet.

I'm still reeling from the cost of a few bit's of driftwood, drilled and stacked on a bit of rusty wire and sold as 'Driftwood Christmas Tree's', but people buy them, so they must be happy with them.

And as for 'us' turners, last Christmas I saw a turner selling her wares, all except one item was nothing more than 'turned wood'. The one item was well turned, and had a design, balanced proportions and looked good enough to buy, but her stand was crowded with people all parting with hard earned money.

Rant away, but put your prices and and keep taking the money!
Oh Lord, Lead me not into temptation…

...Oh who am I kidding, follow me, I know a shortcut!

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2260
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #8 on: November 05, 2014, 04:14:30 PM »
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
 >:(     Calm down Les or you will do your self a mischief. Now you know why I sometimes ( very rarely in  >:( 
 >:(     fact these days) get sooooooooooooo angry with the absolute ********* ******   >:( >:(                       
 >:(Warning language like this is not allowed !![/color that is put out there    >:(
 >:(      dayscalm down, take a deep breath, go down the shed and turn something of            >:(  >:quality.
 >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(

Offline Graham

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
  • Chairman. www.DidcotTurners.club
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #9 on: November 05, 2014, 05:06:09 PM »
It has to be remembered that nobody moaned about the quality of the Austin 7 until the Polls Royce came along. Maybe they all haven't seen really good turning.
Regards
Graham
I have learnt the first rule of woodturning.
The internal diameter should never exceed the external width.
Nor the internal depth, the external height.
Does that make me an expert now ?

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 2260
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2014, 04:31:23 PM »
So after Les's rant and most if not all of us agreeing with it the question we should now ask ourselves is this:-
What can we do to change people's attitude to hand turned work?

Offline bodrighywood

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 3631
    • Bodrighy Wood
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #11 on: November 06, 2014, 04:56:41 PM »
So after Les's rant and most if not all of us agreeing with it the question we should now ask ourselves is this:-
What can we do to change people's attitude to hand turned work?

Those of us selling should make sure that we don't just sell bowls as I get fed up seeing tables full of the things at firs etc. Also charge prices that reflect the work, design and skill involved. £15 for a 12" bowl in an exotic wood is ridiculous IMHO and yet it is not untypical of the sort of prices some charge. We are selling a craft, a skill, imagination etc not just a lump of useful wood.
Got other ideas but have to dash so will maybe come back on this, Bit f a hobby horse for me I'm afraid LOL

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline Graham

  • platinum
  • *****
  • Posts: 1250
  • Chairman. www.DidcotTurners.club
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #12 on: November 06, 2014, 05:43:19 PM »
While I have no particular intention of setting up 'shop' it is also a hobby horse of mine and I am wondering if it is in the right 'category'. I occasionally watch 'craft' shows on tv and, even more occasionally, call in at a craft fair  and what I see is cards with bits of other card stuck on it, or stencil / stamped out  stuff glued on it. Or maybe easy cut scroll saw stuff, very simple wooden toys, or hand/home made teddy bears and dolls, sewn cushion covers etc etc.
Now, maybe I am going to get shot down for this, its happened before, but another way of saying all of the above is that I see stuff the teachers used to give us to do to keep us quiet at school. i.e Kids stuff.

Bowls and such like can be brought cheap in sainsburys et al so stay away from them, make showy stuff ( call it art if you must ), sell it off stands in shopping malls, or anywhere other than craft fairs, and sell it for good money. The more you charge the less you need to sell.

I am not sure who first said it but there is an old adage when asked what it is for the answer is 'to enhance your living space' Make stuff that is ornamental, can start conversations, looks expensive, and will fit in modern homes.

Would it work ? Probably not, but you have to get away from this 'craft' thing.
Regards
Graham
I have learnt the first rule of woodturning.
The internal diameter should never exceed the external width.
Nor the internal depth, the external height.
Does that make me an expert now ?

Rlewisrlou666

  • Guest
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #13 on: November 06, 2014, 06:19:44 PM »
I think the card craft stuff you are referring too is called découpage the art of sticking paper onto other bits of paper. :)

My Mum did it when I was a kid.

I'm ok with most craft things "only if" they are well made and not just thrown together by someone with zero artistic skill just to make a quick 50p.

My wife makes knitted and crocheted things clothes/teddies/blankets and even though it drives me insane she is damn good at it.

Ryan

Offline Richard Findley

  • bronze
  • ***
  • Posts: 113
    • The Turner's Workshop
Re: Is it me? I hope not!
« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2014, 08:02:27 PM »
This has now moved on to something that annoys me. There was a time that to be 'a craftsman' was something to be proud of. I would rather be a craftsman than an artist.... However.... These days the word 'craft' is people who make cards or dried flowers etc etc. in my view, craft has been hijacked by them and so now turners are trying to avoid being associated with craft at any cost.


As for your experience with the shop, les, it sounds like you proved to the owner that wood products can sell at a reasonable price, so he's stocking more wood products (a good thing you'd think...) but not being a wood person he doesn't know good from bad, so everything gets a high price tag, which is nearly as bad as undercharging!! Nightmare!

Education is the key I think. When pros go to clubs and are asked to judge the show table you should tell people (gently and tactfully) how to improve their work! Then we get on to judging people's work.... Oh the rant could go on...........

Richard
See more of my work at www.turnersworkshop.co.uk
Follow on Instagram: https://instagram.com/richard_findley