Author Topic: Latest piece  (Read 14792 times)

Offline Jim

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #15 on: January 20, 2013, 10:00:19 PM »
Art is art no matter how you look at it and what it is made of.  ;)

Mark Sanger

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2013, 09:54:50 AM »
Hi all

Thank you for all of your comments.

It was my intention to reply yesterday before I slipped up on the ice and injured both of my elbows and possibly  a bone in my hand, due to my local council being more useless than a one legged blind sloth climbing a greasy pole.  :)

I would try to sue them but I would have more chance of extracting a succinct reply from a politician.  :)

This is not a new or concept piece, the first one being produced (pictured below) several years ago. It now resides in a collection in Australia. In contrast  it is covered with silver leaf as opposed to metallic paint but was less refined so I opted for spray paints this time around.





At no time do I think or do I intend my work to be classed as art. Sculptural and creative may be but I do not know enough about art to worry about it. I make the work I do as I enjoy it and for me to express my thoughts. If people see it as this that is fine, if they see it as junk that is also fine.

This silver bowl being based on the meditative mind, the silver arbitrary bowl represents the thought processes that often distract, with the marble being a centered thought.

Both the bowl and mind are vessels so I used this as my reference and starting point. Wood is just something I have the tools and knowledge to work, the lathe being just another tool.


David

Thank you for your honesty, as George has said there are a few forums where sideways snipes and destructive comments are common place, and iff we all like the same stuff then the world would be dull. People should be able to say what they feel in a constructive way, which you have.

There is as much turning in this piece as a pure square platter. It was finished to the same high grit abrasive as with a waxed piece before the further work.  I have just added to it and taken some bits away, with there being no less of a turning in it. So it is only 10% as more has been done to it.  It is the base form for the piece like much of my work.

Turning for me is a vehicle to remove wood, to produce base curves etc to build upon and to express myself.

My thoughts when I make are not to push woodturning forward, it is for my own satisfaction and for paying the bills. I would however look to the Australians and Americans and ask yourself why UK turning is trailing so far behind. And ask if the advocates of round and brown who have held back the more creative in the UK for fear of losing the key to their ivory towers have helped or held back our craft as viewed by the wider art and sculptural community.

I have never been able to have my pure work realise the same prices that my sculptural textured work does. I am able on occasions to make 4,5 or even 6 times as much than if the wood is showing but only if it is sculptural, the round even less. However, the commercial while it is an important part it is not the driving force behind what I do.

Bryan

I personally don't see why the wood has to be seen, its just a material and it is not as the native is a rare commodity . If you want to leave your work natural then that is fine as it is what you want to do.

Tibetan, Indian, Japanese, North American Indian wood sculpture, has been covered in colour and gold leaf for many hundreds and perhaps thousands of years. So colouring and covering wood is indeed not a new concept.

In short I make my work not for other woodturners as woodturners don't buy it.  I make it as I want to, and to pay my bills.

I show it on the forums not for praise or to have it validated, but  in my own way to show that wood can be used for a wide variety of work and to share what I make. If people hate it or love it is for them to decide.

Joey Richardson, Nick Agar, Bihn Pho, Douglas Fisher, Keith Holt, Derek Weidman to name a few also spend more time working off of the lathe than on. I doubt they worry too much about how much lathe work is in a piece, more whether they express what they want to in their work.

We can validate page after page our own thoughts on such a subject.. But I say make what you want and enjoy what you do. I do.


Thank you all again.




 
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 10:04:51 AM by Mark Sanger »

Mark Sanger

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2013, 11:20:06 AM »
When I can make a curved square platter as good as this with or without piercing or spraying I will comment further :-)

Hi Russell, feel free to comment on my work or anyone's. Your thoughts are as valid as all.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2013, 11:26:37 AM by Mark Sanger »

Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2013, 11:57:53 AM »
Mark, you pose some interesting thought’s – but I had no doubt that you would after reading some of our thoughts and comments about your latest work.

You are of course correct, wood is only a medium…

•   Leonardo DaVinci used wood as a canvas for his paintings, none of us would argue that it is not Art.
•   Engravers of old worked on blocks of Lime. Art! – probably not, but a medium for producing many images, some of which are now considered as such.
•   As you note, many cultures use wood for the manufacture of ceremonial masks, totems and many other items. Sculptures are sometimes done in wood, other-times stone or metal, but it is only a carrier for the image, not the material, coloured or otherwise.

This is probably where we are weakest, and again as you note, why we lag the American and Australians in the appreciation of Turned Work as an Art Form. We are conceivably our own worst enemy in limiting ourselves to, if not purely turned then mostly turned work. Instead of seeing a turned piece as a canvas for further development.

We all know the adage that you should spend as long finished your work as turning it, but to the most of us that means sanding, possibly applying a stain and applying a protective finish.

Your ability (and turners like yourself – some you named) to see and work beyond our concepts of turning leads and guides us. Not many of us will ever see enough to make the step you’ve made, and some of what you make is beyond what some of us are comfortable with. We can’t see the way you do. Although I do note that there is at least one other member of this forum who seems to be starting to walk a similar path as yourself.

But please, don’t stop. Like it or not, appreciate it or not, we all need the people who push the boundaries, who take the step most of us can’t.

Whether we like this piece or not (or possible future postings), your explanation of it’s symbols make us all appreciate the thoughts you put behind it. And if you can make just one of us try something different or see a little in your direction you will have made a great contribution to the art, whether we can see the wood or not.
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Offline John. B

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2013, 12:02:17 PM »
I think it's very attractive piece of artwork which would grace my display cabinet anytime. Wood or not!

John. B

Offline Terry Miller

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2013, 12:26:56 PM »
 This piece of work  has certainly created a bit of debate ( I personally like it) but I think everyone would agree It takes a lot of vision and skill to produce a piece like this!!!

The only comment where I would disagree with you Mark is that you say it is not art. I think it is and a good piece at that.

Keep up the good work!!

Regards

Terry
Regards

Terry

Mark Sanger

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2013, 01:45:08 PM »
Bryan

I certainly will post my work in future and in no way have I taken anything here, said by anyone as offensive or upsetting in anyway. It would be arrogant of anyone to think that everyone should agree with them or their work.  A bit more tolerance in society generally would not go amiss, but that is another debate and not one for here.  :)

My work is slowly changing to a far more sculptural form as I guess for me it is a natural progression as I like to explore the possibilities of myself and the material.

John and Terry

Thank you again.  I am trying to stay away from the subject of art/craft as it has caused me many an hour debating the subject in many a forum to no real conclusion. But I thank you both for your comments.

Mark Sanger

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2013, 04:23:28 PM »
Bryan

Just a bit of useless information I went through my archive and this silver leafed piece I made at the end of 2006.

It will be a while before I post again for no other reason than I am developing new work and have quite a few deadlines to meet and the forums for me are a nice distraction. But I may see you at the club if the ice clears up.  :)

Offline woodndesign

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2013, 11:20:05 PM »

Hi Mark,

Your welcome and yes just where would we be without honesty and it should be hoped fair comments, it helps no one if it's to go with the flow and agree in liking a piece for whatever the form or who the person is that made it, feathers can be straightened ...   ;D ...

Your right in our trailing so far behind the Australians and Americans as well, open Woodturning or go on AAW or WoW (World of Woodturners) and it's eye opening and not only with the work, but to read the comments on what some see as the minute of detail, I can't tell as to under what light or how many the picture was taken or that the colour may not be correct .. :o ...  But it should be hoped that we could tap into and can learn from them, I'd consider too turners don't stigmatize turners over there, maybe because the largest number are very good hobbyists, there's so many and they've alot more inspiration to draw from with so many events across the different states than what we have on offer, but then how do we change things.

Americans also have a different view and more awareness of woodturned/wood art and have found it acceptable for whatever the turned form, it's color, how much, how little there's no regard to if it's over wood and to what type, it could be over Bigleaf Maple they'd not care as long as it's an art form they like.

Continue as you are with your work, please yourself and not we critical turners, don't as I know pay bills, I'd heard and don't recall from who, in a display a turner's wife comments as to liking a piece and could they buy it, his answer, I'll make you one....   ;D ...

I hope after your fall, no damage has been done and your on the mend.

Cheers  David
"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,"  By Dickens ''''

Mark Sanger

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2013, 09:30:01 AM »
Hi David

Thanks.  In relation to my hand I think I have broken a bone near my wrist but will have to let the Doc's have a look at it.  But I have a lot to get done can be done me thinks, so I may have to sub contract George to do some of my turning, and pain killers will have to do for the rest.

 It could have been worse I could have ripped my coat.  :)

Any one should fee free to comment on work and I have no issue with this at all. I will always challenge peoples perception of what is being produced out there, as I feel it is important for our development as a craft. We don't have to agree with it. Of course change is always challenged in itself, so it is a healthy to and fro.

I will continue doing my own thing (I do still produce a lot of natural pieces), and I do not want any one to think that I am against in any way pure turning, there is a place for both and people should produce what they want.

all the best.

Mark Sanger

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2013, 09:37:53 AM »
correction to a previous comment about the first one of these pieces being produce in 2006, this is in fact incorrect I made it in 2010. Must make a note to calibrate the date on my camera  ::)

Offline woodndesign

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2013, 11:27:28 AM »

Hi Mark,

I wish you well, the hands are important, as much as eyes in our line, as any business, so take care.

Cheers     David

"It was the best of times, it was the worst of times,"  By Dickens ''''

thebowlerhattedturner

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2013, 01:54:41 PM »
I agree with the comments made about how woodturning is seen by the Americans. We get quite a few in the shop over the year and they have the  attitude that if a gift is handmade more thought has gone into the buying of it., which I agree with.

 I know we have had this conversation a few tomes but I do wish that I could look at things differently and end up with something a bit more "arty" if not art. I will be getting a new airbrush soon so my stuff will no longer be just round and brown.........how does round and green grab you :P
I think there is a need for a course in "looking at things differently".

Your frustratingly
John BHT

thebowlerhattedturner

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2013, 01:56:00 PM »
I was also going to add that if George was subcontracted it will all end up painted!!

Offline Bryan Milham

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Re: Latest piece
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2013, 02:29:47 PM »
how does round and green grab you :P

Drab Green, sound very familier to an ex-military man!
Oh Lord, Lead me not into temptation…

...Oh who am I kidding, follow me, I know a shortcut!