Setting up gouge profiles.

[Stew]

Good evening,

I'm new here so to give a brief intro.....

My Dad had a woodlathe that I learned to use while growing up. Made numerous bowls and boxes that were given away of passable standard. Later on in years I took up knifemaking as a hobby so work with steel, wood and leather quite regularly. A few years back I snagged an axminster lathe off ebay for £50 but with no really space to use it lives tucked on end at the end of the workshop and has been used for a total of.......a picture hook knob, a pastry dobber, three light pulls and a mallet handle that never had the head finished.

So, present day....
Last weekend I decided to spin up a section of yew log that I've had around and start to make a bowl. I should have spent more time trimming the blank beforehand but I didn't mind too much. The outer is roughly shaped currently with my small selection of tools and it was at this point I decided that really, I need a better gouge. A quick check around and really, I can't afford any brand new as it is and then I had the thought that as I have my linishers and angle grinder for shaping steel and my heat treat kiln for hardening so have a nice round of silver steel ready to shape into a gouge.

Onto my question (yes, I know - long winded! )

Gouge bevels, specifically bowl gouge with side profiles for a sheer cut.
Is there a specific measurement on how to set them up? Back with my Dad, we just kinda guessed at a grind but now I see all sorts of jigs, etc but on a bit of a search I can't really find out what to do.

I fully expect someone to just point me straight to it but better a fool for five minutes than the rest of your life!

[seventhdevil]

everyone seems to have their own grind for bowl gouges so you will get dozen of different answers.

mine are roughly 45 degrees factory grind.

if you can't afford new then i suggest you scour ebay for a bargain.

there are plenty to be had.

[Bryan Milham]

Stew,

First, welcome to the forum.

Now to answer your question, there are a few basics but everyone has their variations. I have a much longer bevel on my skews than most people, some have 3 or more bowl gouges with different angled grinds for the different parts of the bowls. So basically, the grind is what you create and what you get used to.

But there are some fundamentals and if you search the interweb, you will find lots of examples or descriptions, having said that, for bowl gouges, one of the most useful grinds is the Celtic, Long, Sweptback or Ellsworth Grind. That,s 7 inches back from the centre of the wheel, 4 inches below the center-line of the wheel and 2 inches protuberance of the tool, see the pdf I've attached.

Yes it shows a grinding jig in use, but these are relatively easy to make from scraps and bits and pieces you should have hanging around from your Knife making work.

[Stew]

everyone seems to have their own grind for bowl gouges so you will get dozen of different answers.

mine are roughly 45 degrees factory grind.

if you can't afford new then i suggest you scour ebay for a bargain.

there are plenty to be had.

I know about hunting ebay and have had a look there a few times. The prices can still go quite high and then I remembered that for me, a lot of the time it's about the journey, not the destination.

A few years back I decided that I wanted to start stand up paddleboarding, like my friends. I had never been on a board before and made my own hollow wood board. It isn't a great board but I got more pleasure having made it myself than just buying it.
http://www.stewartjlight-knives.com/2016/01/sup-part-1.html
http://www.stewartjlight-knives.com/2016/01/sup-part-2.html
http://www.stewartjlight-knives.com/2016/07/sup-part-3.html

[Stew]

Stew,

First, welcome to the forum.

Now to answer your question, there are a few basics but everyone has their variations. I have a much longer bevel on my skews than most people, some have 3 or more bowl gouges with different angled grinds for the different parts of the bowls. So basically, the grind is what you create and what you get used to.

But there are some fundamentals and if you search the interweb, you will find lots of examples or descriptions, having said that, for bowl gouges, one of the most useful grinds is the Celtic, Long, Sweptback or Ellsworth Grind. That,s 7 inches back from the centre of the wheel, 4 inches below the center-line of the wheel and 2 inches protuberance of the tool, see the pdf I've attached.

Yes it shows a grinding jig in use, but these are relatively easy to make from scraps and bits and pieces you should have hanging around from your Knife making work.

That link looks great - thanks!

In terms of the 7" back from the centre of the wheel, is it an issue that I don't use a wheel? My knifework all uses flat plattens for bevels, though I could make a curved platten attachment to replicate a wheel if essential. (definitely can't afford  new wheel for grinder!)  I have wondered if the bevels need to be hollow ground to make appropriate contact.

I had anticipated needing a jig and have found some plans for making one earlier, it was just the putting it into use that I wasn't sure on! I have some high layer birch ply that someone was scrapping that is great for jigs and fixtures.

[Derwent Woodturning club]

Hi Stew,
I appreciate you intend to use a flat system for shaping your tools and, in this video, Stuart Batty is using a wheel grinder, but I think you might find this a useful clip, as he explains a lot about how tools cut and why the grinds are as they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMVGankeK0I

[Stew]

Hi Stew,
I appreciate you intend to use a flat system for shaping your tools and, in this video, Stuart Batty is using a wheel grinder, but I think you might find this a useful clip, as he explains a lot about how tools cut and why the grinds are as they are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QMVGankeK0I

Excellent - thanks!

I'll get on that later.

[Bryan Milham]

Stew,

we're glad to help but post some of your work sometime for us to see.

Bryan

[Stew]

Stew,

we're glad to help but post some of your work sometime for us to see.

Bryan

Yep, sure will! ( If I actually get to a point of turning something suitable! )

[julcle]

Hi Stew, Presumably you are using a flat belt system for your knife work. You can use the same for your tool work, have a look at the Robert Sorby YouTube channel and search for Pro-Edge Hints and Tips you will get the idea when you watch it. Have fun -- Julian

[Stew]

Hi Stew, Presumably you are using a flat belt system for your knife work. You can use the same for your tool work, have a look at the Robert Sorby YouTube channel and search for Pro-Edge Hints and Tips you will get the idea when you watch it. Have fun -- Julian

Yep, flat belt. That video is excellent - thank you!

[Stew]

I've made a start - a small one for this attempt.







Need to wait for a few bits that require hardening as it's a bit of a waste just doing one item at a time.