Carbon steel, HSS, Cryo, PM and Titanium nitride

[Redtails4]

Hi
I have to pick this  up but why am in on dangerous ground  and more to the point what are suggesting? :

[julcle]

I don't own Cryo or M42 just HSS and Carbon steel. I have a 220 Grit belt on the Pro-Edge for all the gouges but I think also that skews need to be like a razor so they do get a bit of a polish. Julian

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Hi
I have to pick this  up but why am in on dangerous ground  and more to the point what are suggesting? :

Only because there are those that will argue that honing is a waste of time or that the edge of a tool is removed the moment it touches the wood or any number of reasons really, imagine you have the opposite of pandora's box  and when you open it you can never close it again that is the can of worms that can be opened when talking about sharpening. (an d I am probably one of the worst offenders!!)

[John Plater]

I take no credit for this thought, it has been expressed recently in the magazine by a friend who turns and carves wood. The amount of material removed by a woodturning tool can be quantified by multiplying the rpm of the lathe by the diameter of the piece of work by the number of minutes between sharpening. In other words, a lot of work which is going to beat up the cutting edge. A carving tool does relatively little work but is hand worked more directly. It is worth honing the edge of a carving tool to make it easier to use without the problem of quickly losing that edge. The lathe tool will lose an edge so quickly that it is not worth honing surely ?
ATB John

[Redtails4]

Hi
John  that was a poor attempt at a wind up, but it was done for a reason , people coming into this craft have lost has far has help to getting on to the first rung of the ladder of this craft in the majority of towns and city's spread around these isles unless they are a member of a club and let's be frank there are some of these clubs that are downright selfish and go out of there way to be akward not only to the young who need the the helping hand of a experienced hand but to the mature learner also why is it we have not one single member of female of the species
On this forum ?
It's very important that that the experience of this forum can be tapped in to before it's lost and sharpening is one of those black arts when you first start out on the road to learning this craft.
Who was who wrote "the craft is so long to learn,and the life so short"?

[John D Smith]

 Hi Redtails4
                   I think your comments on your last post were wrong I have been woodturning about 20 years and the one thing I have found helpful above all is the generosity of woodturners to share information to any one who asks.

  Sorry to get off the thread of this subject but I just had to say this.

                                                     Regards John

[Redtails4]

Hi
I could not agree with you more wood Turner's in general are open minded people who will help at the drop of a hat
It's not the individual it's the collective  please read my comments again  these are based on personal experiences
The club i am in at the moment  are a great bunch  everybody mucks in ask a question and you get answer.

[seventhdevil]

getting back to the question, i think HSS is good enough as it's all i have and i use harder timbers that have more silica in and can be harder on the tools than most other turners have ever turned on here.

i've no carbide scrapers and i do not hone my tools but merely grind them on a white wheel that is on my record 8" grinder.


i have just been introduced to a hercules 3 from hunter tools sent by the manufacturer to do a review on the hard timbers i turn. i'm to compare it against my HSS gouge which gets a bit worn when turning my skittle balls and other tough timbers.


it won't replace my HSS tools but it will be used simply to extend the life of them.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

The thing is about woodturning is that there is so much to learn that it can take a lifetime to know it all, but who will be able to tell you that you can now stop learning. Everyday is a schoolday but especially so in this craft that we practtice. A friend on this website has recently given me a chisel (amongst other things) and this morn in the workshop I put a handle on it and tried it out. It is a bar about 5mm or 6mm diameter ground to be used as a box scraper. I have to say the second I tried it I loved it and it has now been placed in the armoury for future (regular) use. I have other box scrapers but this one is just .....nice. Redtails I agree that not many women become turners but that may be down to many reasons, blokes being MCP's could be one but in my experience not. We should remember that a chap with black all over his fingers is hardly noticed but a lady with the same sort of staining may not feel the same. But this off thread, sorry. Steve it will be interesting to hear your opinion of the Hercules 3.

[bodrighywood]

What is that saying? The man who stops learning is dead? I have a selection of old tools from retired turners, boot sales etc, all carbon steel and they are great for trying different angles, grinds etc. Also used old spindle gouges where the cutting edge has disappeared over the years and ground it to a three sided pointing tool, great for all sorts of work. All decent quality tools have a place and what worlks for you go for it but I am happy with the ones I have, when they wear out I may get a cryo one but not sure I'll last that long LOL.

Pete

[JollyJim]

....just needed to say, I'm a bloke - I'm NOT an MCP !!!

Jim

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

....just needed to say, I'm a bloke - I'm NOT an MCP !!!

Jim

Jim most blokes at clubs are very fine people but some are not hence my comment.

[BrianH]

Look out, here comes Brian's 2 penn'orth of bias!!

There seems to be no shortage of misconceptions flying about concerning 'plated' tools, such as the Sorby gold jobbies.
The only area of plating of importance is that tiny bit within the flute. The rest will be ground away over time having served no useful purpose except looking pretty. That bit within the flute, however, is worth its weight in …well gold actually, sorry about the pun... That tiny, wasp's whisker of titanium will always form the actual cutting edge and, being so hard, will outlast the standard HSS many times over.


I had these tools on test when they first came out, during my writing career, and my ultra-scientific regime included clouting two tools together to try to chip the plating and using wet and dry paper to try to remove it. The result? Arm ache, no chips and bald wet and dry! The spindle gouges are still on extended trial, even though I'm now on my second example and I retired from writing before Pontious started his pilot training.

Having, I think, played with all the tools mentioned in this thread here are my opinions on some of them...

There's nothing wrong with carbon steel tools, in the same way there is nothing wrong with a black and white telly or having Ilford film in your camera. I wouldn't recommend buying them second hand, however, because there is no telling if their tempering has been tampered with by overheating on the grinder.

Carbide scrapery tools are ideal for those turners who enjoy owning made stuff more than the actual making of it. In other words the end result is more important than the method.

PM tools also offer longer lasting edges than HSS.

Are any 'supertools' worth the extra pennies?
Possibly to a pro where turning time = the kid's supper but probably not to your average weekend warrior to whom turning time=enjoyment and satisfaction. They certainly wont improve anyone's turning one jot!

A gouge's flute shape and sharpening are, in my opinion, far more important than what they are made of. So stick to what already works for you would be my watchword. For instance, As already mentioned that I prefer Sorby spindle gouges but usually reach for a Crown PM bowl gouge. If I use another version of either it feels like wearing someone else's bedroom slippers.

Hope that helps
Brian

[Redtails4]

Hi
Brian H i would agree with most of what you say but to talk about the coating a coating has being beneficial to a wood turner i would take issue with (1) when you grind your new coated gouge for the first time once that is done that bevel becomes it's weakest please afterwards when your bevel goes Blunt that's it's no matter how good the condition of the rest of the tool is.
These coatings have to be run at a 100% all the life of that inserts so all the edges wear at the same rate under cutting forces you will never match on a wood lathe no even one that is cnc controlled.
Some of these inserts are with a cutting time of minutes in when they are in contact with material.
Putting a coating on wood turning tool is a gimmick designed to catch the turner like carbide tooling is being used now.
That is aimed at the weekend turner who thinks that platter he turns with his carbide tooling he bought from so and so .it gives this gent that wood turning is ever so easy.

[BrianH]

Hi Redtails, its good to chat.
I'm afraid most of your explanation of 'inserts' went above my head but I just cannot agree that the titanium coated tools are a gimmick. The very tip of the cutting edge is, and will remain for the life of the tool, solid.... if exceedingly thin... titanium and the core of the tool, which is standard HSS incidentally, only plays a supporting role during the cutting process. Imagine, if you will, laminating two different coloured woods together and then cutting the resulting blank at an angle. The endgrain of both species will remain visible when the blank is viewed from the end no matter how many times you recut the angle.

All the best
Brian