Author Topic: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations  (Read 13997 times)

Offline David Buskell

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Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« on: July 11, 2016, 02:52:56 PM »
Wouldn’t it be great if woodturning presenters could do their demonstrations from their own shops with their own tools, and have a live interactive audience participation in a faraway club/chapter location?

For those of you that participated in the experiment on live broadcasting we did a couple of years ago, this video gives some idea of how much technology has moved on since then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnxKFbc0tnk

I only caught the tail end of Alan's presentation (clashed with the Moulthrops!) but spoke to him the next day. The video also includes some very valid points not only on demos but other matters we should consider.

Worth watching even if it is just over an hour long - the Special Interest Groups sessions only have one hour allocated to them on the Thursday evening.

I think we have a way to go before this takes off in the UK as not so many of our turners have the studio setup needed, nor indeed do clubs always have the wi-fi capabilities at their venue.

By the way, since preparing the demonstration, Alan tells me he has found a new system for broadcasting which will provide a better and more stable connection.
David
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Offline Les Symonds

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2016, 06:05:42 PM »
Whilst I find the technology baffling and whilst I can see the advantages of not having to travel to a venue, with all the equipment that's needed for a demo, I really can't see it being a regular replacement for live demos. As a teacher with an honours degree in adult education, and as an audience member at dozens of demos, I for one would not enjoy the experience anything like as much as a live demo. My experience of remote tutoring through live-streamed demos/lessons is that it all feels a bit false and that it lacks one very essential factor....first hand, human interaction.
Les
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Offline dr4g0nfly

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2016, 06:59:51 PM »
I know the Australians do something they call 'Open Workshops' where club members are invited to one members workshop for a look around, demonstration and coffee & chat. It seems to go well but apart from the next part of this posting I've never heard of it here in GB.

George Fowraker holds open days at his workshop several time a year for members of the Burnham-on-Sea club. They come and discuss problems and issues they are having, how to turn something, sharpening, finishing, all the normal problems we encounter whilst learning. Or just to pick the mind of George's vast wealth of knowledge.

These are great days. With no defined programme, it's interest led and the discussion changes as it moves through the day, as more people arrive and others leave, with their own individual issues.

Or am I wrong, do other clubs hold anything similar?
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Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2016, 07:56:53 PM »
Whilst i like the idea of the sort of thing George does and would happily do it myself if my workshop was big enough I am not sure of the broadcasting idea. I am a bit like Les in that I prefer the participation and so forth that goes on in a decent demo, from both sides of the lathe. Unlike Les I only have a Cert Ed in teaching so am not as qualified but for me there is no substitute for being able to ask and answer the question that arises at a moment I can see that it perhaps has a place for those that cannot get to demos for a reason however so wouldn't totally reject the idea.

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2016, 09:03:57 PM »
Although technology can enable a good quality transmission and reproduction, I think this method of broadcasting demonstrations will always be second best to a live demo. No doubt there are potential benefits from savings in travel and perhaps the ability to view turners from farther afield who can't or won't travel the distance needed but my preference would still be to see someone live.

If everyone adopted this method of delivery, it would make it very difficult to get new turners into the demo circuit because the initial investment and the understanding of the technology required might put them off.

You might also find that the one man demo turns into one man plus camera / sound man or men, all of who would no doubt want payment so eventually, it may end up no cheaper.

Offline John D Smith

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2016, 09:49:12 PM »

 David,
            To me Participation participation participation is what makes Demonstrations interesting with all due respect I think this is pie in the sky you need some atmosphere you may call me a nerd or old fashioned but where would this end no seminar to attend no club night etc.
having seen some of the demos on line( I know it is not the same) they are dull.

                                                                    Regards John 
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Offline malcy

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2016, 09:07:13 AM »
I agree that a live demo is best, but we don't have to have one or the other. A mixture of both would work ok, being able to watch expert turners from any where in the world who might otherwise never be seen. For one who is not in a club a video demo is better then nothing at all. Malcolm.

Offline Philip Greenwood

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2016, 08:05:36 PM »
As a demonstrator I can see both sides. As an example let say I went to  Cheam Woodturners this would be 274 mile each way from North Yorkshire at 35p per mile I would be looking at £192 for traveling expenses, and a 5 hour drive each way. I would travel back the next day so 2 days out of my workshop.

Would there be the interaction over a video link I not sure. I like to see the members and I know this would be possible via video. At half time a lot of members come and ask questions, would this happen on a video link.  Most members want to see the TV screen and what the demonstrator is doing so would there miss the demonstrator in person.

One point is how many members would like to see the workshop of the demonstrator and ask about the equipment there have.

The club would save  around £250 with the cost of accommodation as well. That's a lot over the year and would cover the cost of new equipment needed for a video demonstration. 

Will I look into this type of demonstration, I think I will but I will have lots to think about.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2016, 09:39:57 PM by Philip Greenwood »

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2016, 10:59:09 PM »
The other thing that would be missed is the interaction between the demonstrator and those attending before and after the demonstration. I know when I demo at a club there is always a small crowd around me before I start and at the end (when I am trying to pack up and get home) another crowd forms.
        Each time as a demonstrator information is passed on but if it was via video link that would not happen. If you are having a demonstrator via video link why not just buy a video and sit and watch it?

Offline Derek

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2016, 12:20:12 AM »
As a spectator of demo,s by anyone professional or not I certainly enjoy the live interaction. I also enjoy being able to talk to them during the breaks when time allows. To me watching over a link would be the same as buying a DVD and watching it at home.

Offline Dancie

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2016, 08:10:43 AM »
I agree with Derek and BHT,

Part of the enjoyment of seeing a demo is being able to talk to the person throughout the break and to ask questions, where possible, throughout the demonstration itself.

I agree I might as well just buy a dvd.

As an ex lecturer in photography I enjoyed the interaction with my students, I lecture now but on a totally different subject and would hate a non-responsive audience.

Dancie.
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Offline fuzzyturns

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2016, 09:36:41 AM »
Although I can understand the many voices here mentioning the direct interaction with the demonstrator during breaks and before and after the demo, I'd have to say that all of this is possible via internet link. As someone who works in IT, I have been exposed to powerful video conferencing systems (called tele-presence), and I can tell you these things are magic. There really is little difference to having the person in the room. The only thing you cannot do is touch him/her or smell him/her.

Don't get this the wrong way: I think the hesitations come from a number of corners:
a) not many wood turners are really comfortable with the level of IT skills required to make a demo via internet a success
b) The UK is a much smaller place than the US (or Australia or South Africa or even France or Spain). Travelling distances tend to be shorter, and therefore costs are lower, hence less incentive.
c) not many wood turners will have had a lot of experience in using video links. There is a huge difference between watching a DVD and participating in a video linked demo session.

I think this is the future, at least for a large proportion of demos, and those demonstrators who are not prepared to gear up for this, will miss out.

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2016, 10:51:07 AM »
Whilst i agree that the IT skills needed are a potential barrier they aren't the only ones. There is also the equipment needed, that is not cheap and in a dusty workshop could be a problem long term. Also how many turners have workshops thatare suitable to do this sort of thig in? I can see a place for it but personally hope it never becomes the norm, there is nothing to substitute for the personal face to face atmosphere at a decent demo.

pete
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Offline Dancie

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2016, 11:37:29 AM »
Quote
The only thing you cannot do is touch him/her or smell him/her.

Fuzzyturns,

Do demo turners have a particular smell, is this something I should look out for? :D

Dancie
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Offline fuzzyturns

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2016, 04:27:46 PM »
I am pretty sure they all have their individual, personal smell. I do.  8) 8)
Joking aside: Most people are completely unaware of it, but smell is one of the most important factors determining whether you do or don't like a person.