Author Topic: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations  (Read 14236 times)

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #15 on: July 13, 2016, 08:00:38 PM »
Most people are completely unaware of it, but smell is one of the most important factors determining whether you do or don't like a person.

So that's my problem LOL. Must change my deoderant

Pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline GBF

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2016, 10:36:10 AM »
I have only just noticed this thread and the last consideration seems to be the demonstrator. A lot of full time pro Turners rely on the income from demonstrating and it seems to me that all this is about is getting Demo's on the cheap.
So the demonstrator invests in a load of film and camera equipment and somebody to work it all for less money it makes no sense to me.
You would have to have somebody skilled with the camera and who is going to pay him.
If you work out how little it is per member to have a live demonstrator it is probably the price of two pints of beer or a pack of fags for an evenings entertainment.
We are a small club and by using in house demonstrators we can easily afford top demonstrators If we can do it I am sure other clubs can.
Have a look at our Website and see the quality of demonstrators we get and we still have money in the bank.
We have never received or asked for grants or hand outs we have paid for everything ourselves.
Including full membership to the AWGB our members if they attend every evening throughout the year the cost to them is less than £70  00

http://www.burnham-on-sea-wtc.co.uk/events.html

Regards George
The man that never made a mistake never made anything

Offline Derwent Woodturning club

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2016, 11:32:05 AM »
George, you have summed up the situation perfectly.

I am in the same situation, a professional turner teaching and doing demonstrations, as well as a club secretary, so see both sides of the 'costs' argument. What other form of entertainment can be got so cheaply!

And I agree with several other posters that the interaction with an 'on site' demonstrator cannot be beaten. You need to ask questions AND get the answers, as and when they occur, and, although it is technically possible, I don't think it practical to use the internet for that purpose, for a host of reasons.

I will throw in one more thing to consider. If we go this way, there is no need for clubs to meet and you lose all the social side. Woodturning can be a 'lonely' hobby in so far as you don't need a team of people to take part, so clubs provide that interaction with other people that keeps us all sane.
Regards,
Derwent Woodturning Club

Offline Derek

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2016, 01:14:12 PM »
Will it be like a table full of teenagers sitting down for a meal and texting each other rather than talk to each other.

Offline John D Smith

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #19 on: July 17, 2016, 06:47:11 PM »

 Where is David Buskell ??? I have seen David start these sort of threads before then never answer the comments made I must and agree the

ones from GBF , Derek & Derwent Club hit the Nail on the Head.

                                            Regards John
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Offline GBF

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #20 on: July 17, 2016, 06:55:41 PM »
He has been whining  about the cost of Demonstrations and this sort of nonsense for over ten years

Regards George
The man that never made a mistake never made anything

Online philstevenson

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #21 on: July 17, 2016, 07:37:36 PM »
This thread seems to have been taken over by demonstrators who feel their livelihood is at risk. Nowhere in the original post does it mention cheaper demonstrations; I read the main benefits a being watching and interaction with a pro in his / her own workshop using their own equipment which is probably not transportable. Pros who want to offer tssi option can cost in their investment and let the customer (ie the club) decide if they are worth it or not, just like we do now. I for one would welcome the prospect of watching someone from the other end of the country (maybe an Aussie or an American?) live on camera and talk directly with them. A replacement for our "normal" demos? Of course not, nor was that ever suggested; a useful addition worth thinking about? Yes, definitely and my guess is it will certainly happen sooner or later, whether some established demonstrators like it or not.
Bad mouthing the original poster doesn't help; I've never met the guy but his suggestion seemed a fair one, politely phrased. Accusing him of whinging on an open forum like this is just plain bad manners. No wonder people hesitate to post here.

Offline Les Symonds

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #22 on: July 17, 2016, 07:38:00 PM »
I agree whole-heartedly with George about the cost of attending demos. My club (Mid Wales Woodturners) is, I'm sure, similar to many clubs across the UK. We meet on Sundays and the demos last from 11:00 and run through until 5:00. Our fee on the door is £9 per day, so that's a meager £1.50 per hour and we have top demonstrators, both from within the UK and occasionally from overseas. I don't know much about George's club at Burnham, but from the info that I've gleaned about it on this forum, it seems to be a well attended, lively club with regular demos. Their club, like ours and like many others, I suspect, would suffer at the implementation of video-link demos. I really can't see many of our members being happy to pay £9 to sit and watch a monitor!

Come on David Buskell....you invited our input on this, let's hear what you have to say about it.
Les
Education is important, but wood turning is importanter.

Offline GBF

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #23 on: July 17, 2016, 07:51:59 PM »
For your information Phil I do not do Demonstrations as for bad mouthing it is exactly as I said he has been moaning about the cost of Demonstrating for years.

Regards George
The man that never made a mistake never made anything

Offline GBF

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #24 on: July 17, 2016, 08:37:55 PM »
David Buskell was logged on for about an hour until about ten minutes ago and did not reply. Those of us who have been around for a while have seen it all before

Regards George
The man that never made a mistake never made anything

Offline David Buskell

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #25 on: July 17, 2016, 08:52:29 PM »
Good evening everyone. Some interesting comments raised on this thread and some answers have been asked for.
Sorry the response wasn't quick enough for you George but a neighbour popped round with a query that affects both our houses whilst I was almost at the end of typing this lot!

I can't give you answers but I can give you my thoughts on the thread and the comments made.

Derek thinks this would be like a bunch of teenagers sitting around texting. The problem with the systems used in the experiment some years ago was that it did not allow for interaction. Technology has moved on and this issue has probably been resolved. Certainly the 4 or 5 of us that hooked into the live demo were able to interact with the demonstrator but it was slow and cumbersome, with the resulting time delays.

Derwent say they like the personal interaction with the demonstrator - I totally agree with that. The set-up that Alan Zenreich is demonstrating gives the facility for instant Q/A which is why one of the key components at the club end is a roving mike.

As for GBF.s comments, well, this new technology would allow clubs to extend their range of demonstrators with the only saving being the mileage charges. If we wanted to bring a turner down from say Yorkshire for a demo, we face 500 miles at 40p a mile on top of the demo fee. New technology saves the mileage fee and clubs can plough that back into....... booking more demonstrators! Which gives more interest and hopefully more growth in club membership.

It is true that there are more turners in the US that have good video facilities in their shops but there are also some closer to hand, let's say Ireland for example, who also have good video setup. I would expect the demonstrator to charge the usual rate for the demo but as said above, the saving to the club is mileage. The saving to the demonstrator is preparation and travel.

Live video demos are but one of the ways we can receive demos, providing of course we have a good internet connection. I guess like all these ideas, seeing a live video demo and participating in the instant discussion, will provide proof (or not) if this is a viable addition to the event organisers armoury.
David
At The Cutting Edge

Offline GBF

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #26 on: July 17, 2016, 09:05:21 PM »
Thank you for the answer David.
Do you agree that to make this work you would need a camera man as well as a Demonstrator or would you expect the demonstrator to keep adjusting the camera.
Would this not cancel out the mileage savings if you had to add in the cost of a camera man

Regards George

Bugger he has gone again
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Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #27 on: July 17, 2016, 09:19:20 PM »
When you look at it, a demo over the internet could be similar to a "live" demo. At the club we have a camera set up and an image projecting onto the screen, most people watch the screen, the only difference is the demonstrator is in the same room.
       Dave Buskell hit the nail on the head about having a reliable internet connection, sadly in this country at the moment we cannot guarantee that. So the question is then asked.....what happens if the demonstrator is booked and starts to demonstrate and the feed goes down? Will a question of liability then rear its ugly head? If I am booked to demo at the moment and I don't turn up that is my fault, if you pay to see a demo and the feed goes down whose fault is it then? Also, if you demonstrate over the internet to more than one club you could double or triple your fees, which is a good thing until one of the clubs has a problem with their equipment. The demonstrator cannot stop and wait for the problem to be sorted as other people are waiting.
         I feel this is a debate that will continue for a long time to come.

Offline GBF

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #28 on: July 17, 2016, 09:26:06 PM »
What about needing a camera man?

Regards George
The man that never made a mistake never made anything

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Rethinking Woodturning Demonstrations
« Reply #29 on: July 17, 2016, 11:43:13 PM »
A few points on various people's comments -

David Buskell - The demonstrator wouldn't really save anything on preparation time and what they saved on not having to pack their tools etc. would be taken up with setting up the AV equipment. Cost savings on mileage by the demonstrator would be offset by AV costs so the club wouldn't necessarily save as much as predicted.

John Aitken - Reliable network connections are readily available - at a price!

I don't think peoples views or the capabilities of the technology have changed since last time the same subject was brought up on here!

I know there are some professionals working on pre-recorded demonstrations that clubs can purchase to screen at meetings (along with protection to prevent the copies being circulated). I suspect these will overtake live broadcasting because the ability to edit and re-use the same footage will be of greater benefit to the demonstrator in terms of time and cost.