Seminar questionnaire

[John D Smith]

 
 Well PaulH I have one more Question to ask you "Are you actually a Woodturner" please be specific a yes or no will do please.

                                               John

[Graham]

You are right Pete and I am really glad I went.

I think the question ( why didn't you go ) is tied up with other aspects of the AWGB like.....

If there are 4000 members why are there only about a dozen regular posters on here ?
There are 40+ members of my club, why are only a handful of them AWGB members ?

Times have changed. These are the days of 'Ask not what I can do for the AWGB, ask what the AWGB can do for me'

Somehow we have to show people that £16 (?) quid a year is a good deal and £400 a weekend is an even better deal.

[PaulH]

"Are you actually a Woodturner" please be specific a yes or no will do please.

Of course, why would I take so much effort to try to help the AWGB if I wasn't interested.
I was at Toolpost's open day yesterday(BTW, why wasn't there a AWGB presence there given they're corporate members ?) and spent a nice afternoon today in my workshop starting to make a box in the style of Jason Breach who was giving an excellent demonstration there. The olive ash I was using wasn't as dry as I'd hoped, so I've ended up partially turning the main body and will leave it a few weeks before trying to finish it off properly.

Do you have anything constructive to add to this debate other than bullying me ?

[Graham]

I was also at the Toolpost yesterday afternoon watching Jason.

[bodrighywood]

PM David, Andy or Paul and offer your expertise.

That's email, not a forum.
I post my contributions openly so that others might agree or disagree and that the discussion might develop.

Perhaps it is just the medium, things said vocally can be heard as they are meant, put into writing or online they can seem cold and hard.

Just read things as written, there's no hidden agenda here.
The worst attitude online is 'if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything' no one learns from that.

Paul, please stop and think what you are saying because whether you mean to or not you are coming across as someone who is always in the right and no-one else is ever. The contribution of the AWGB over the last 25 years or so is immense and the work has been done by a precious few people. The membership is predominantly non active with the work done by at best 20 members who give up their free time to keep it running. How to improve it, make it more viable in the community are all valid areas for critique but personally if I cannot do more than just offer 'advice' I would shut up. I am happy to help in whatever ways I can and hope that that is apparent but I do not feel that anyone who cannot even be prepared to pay the subscription fee should feel they have the right to offer criticism unless they are also willing to back that up with active participation in some way. Anyone can look at any organisation and find fault but if they aren't willing to put their money where their mouth is (colloquially speaking before you infer I refer to paying the subscription) then I do not think that they should be so vocal in their coindemnations. You have joined this forum, have probably posted more on this particular thread than any one other and as such not given any evidence of your actual experience as a turner, or as an organiser in such matters as the AWGB. You may reply to this again but rest assured that I am done. Experience working in the fields that I have have made me know when there is no point in trying to continue 'discussing' a matter with someone who will only hear what he wants to.

Pete

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

I didn't want to get embroiled in a war of words so have not commented on any of this so far..........however I have one or two observations to make.
The AWGB is a member led organisation and without the members stating what it is they want the Executive will gain no feedback regarding anything they say,do or organise.
 Regarding the questionnaire, specifically the question about the internet. As I went around the country meeting members in my former capacity of SW rep I came to realise that many of the older generation simply do not understand the internet at all. One person told me that he will not get the internet as he does not want his bank details to be hacked, he didn't believe me when I said you have to put your bank details in first for that to happen. So any question that clarifies a point, no matter how ridiculous it may seem, can only be a good thing.
 The other point I would like to make is the forum is open to all turners and not just AWGB members and although it would be nice to swell our numbers by trying to get new members through the forum I think we are more likely to achieve that by behaving in a polite and civil manner regardless of the way we interpret the tone of comments, it is difficult to detect inflection of written words.
Lastly, when you look back over the posts our small group are usually of one accord which although nice is not necessarily the best thing  for the organisation. We probably have a blinkered view and so I feel that it could be a good thing to get an opinion from someone who is not a member, has not attended the seminar and is not afraid to upset anyone. It would also be nice to have constructive comments from all participants. One way to get these comments is to email Dave as he said in a previous posting , the other is to fill in the questionaire regardless of how we as individuals feel the information will be used.
 But it should all be done with good grace and with the same outcome in mind.

[bodrighywood]

I didn't want to get embroiled in a war of words so have not commented on any of this so far..........however I have one or two observations to make.
The AWGB is a member led organisation and without the members stating what it is they want the Executive will gain no feedback regarding anything they say,do or organise.
 Regarding the questionnaire, specifically the question about the internet. As I went around the country meeting members in my former capacity of SW rep I came to realise that many of the older generation simply do not understand the internet at all. One person told me that he will not get the internet as he does not want his bank details to be hacked, he didn't believe me when I said you have to put your bank details in first for that to happen. So any question that clarifies a point, no matter how ridiculous it may seem, can only be a good thing.
 The other point I would like to make is the forum is open to all turners and not just AWGB members and although it would be nice to swell our numbers by trying to get new members through the forum I think we are more likely to achieve that by behaving in a polite and civil manner regardless of the way we interpret the tone of comments, it is difficult to detect inflection of written words.
Lastly, when you look back over the posts our small group are usually of one accord which although nice is not necessarily the best thing  for the organisation. We probably have a blinkered view and so I feel that it could be a good thing to get an opinion from someone who is not a member, has not attended the seminar and is not afraid to upset anyone. It would also be nice to have constructive comments from all participants. One way to get these comments is to email Dave as he said in a previous posting , the other is to fill in the questionaire regardless of how we as individuals feel the information will be used.
 But it should all be done with good grace and with the same outcome in mind.
[/quote

Amen, thank you Johm

Goodnight

pete

[PaulH]

We probably have a blinkered view and so I feel that it could be a good thing to get an opinion from someone who is not a member, has not attended the seminar and is not afraid to upset anyone.

It's nice to read that at least one person here understands that alternative views might be of some value if you seriously want to encourage new members to join up, compared to the "everything is wonderful" and the "if you don't like it you're worthless" attitude some people have expressed.

Yes, sure there are some people who don't use the internet, but as I've said before, if you have a survey on the internet "do you use the internet?" is a foregone conclusion that doesn't need asking.
Maybe more importantly for the longer outlook. The future of woodturning is with younger people and they universally understand the internet and think it's important. Having questions like "do you use the internet?" on an online form, just discredits the organisation from it's future potential membership.

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Paul I am afraid I have to disagree with you on this point. Just because people are on the internet does not mean that they actually use it. Also bear in mind that it is easier to produce one lot of questions that can be viewed on the net or via snail mail such as Revs.

[fuzzyturns]

I've been following this thread (and also the other one about seminar attendance and the next seminar) with quite some interest. And before anybody asks, I am an AWGB member, I was at the seminar, and yes, I am also an active turner.
It would appear to me that the AWGB as an organisation is in a slightly tricky spot. Although the seminar was very well organized and executed, attendance figures were insufficient, resulting in a loss of 10k. To the folks who did all the work that is basically adding insult to injury. Clearly something went wrong.
It is always in these situations that emotions ride high, because for many there is also personal pride at stake (and don't get me wrong, I think they have reason to be proud of what was achieved).

I do think that PaulH has made a lot of valid points. The way they are presented is very matter-of-fact, and whilst I can see where Pete is coming from, I happen to think that the times of being nice to each other so we don't cause any offences are over.
There is a real danger of the next seminar not happening. There is also a possibility that some new kids on the block (UKIWS) pull a magic rabbit out of the hat, and steal the show. If these are to be avoided, the naked truth has to be faced square on. It shouldn't matter whether PaulH is a member or not, his contributions here should be considered and then either be discarded (for whatever reason) or implemented.

[Graham]

Well said Fuzzy.
It must be very hard to ask for suggestions etc and not take any criticisms personally.
The team did a fantastic job with the seminar, it made a profound impression on me and I don't feel the need for many changes,  but how do we sell it to a few more people ?

It is OK to say that the joys of woodturning needs to be spread to the younger section of the community but that will take many years to being about. We have to accept that for now ( i.e, the next seminar ) we have to deal with / appeal to a more aged membership.

[Dave Brookes]

Not wishing to get embroiled in any 'tit for tat' comments, I would say that I totally agree with both Pete and BHT's.
I would ask PaulH a couple of questions:
As a self professed expert cameraman with years of experience, did you volunteer your services to the AWGB for the recent Seminar?
and
Did you ask Peter Hemsley why there was no AWGB attendance at the Toolpost?

I will make no further posts to this thread.

Dave

[PaulH]

As a self professed expert cameraman with years of experience, did you volunteer your services to the AWGB for the recent Seminar?

No, I'm not a member and I wasn't free for it all anyway.
Frankly, I work hard enough that spending three days working for free isn't at all appealing.

Did you ask Peter Hemsley why there was no AWGB attendance at the Toolpost?

No. I thanked him for running the event as I left.
I have no idea if the AWGB choose not attend trade events like this or if their presence was unwanted.
I would have thought that it would be a perfect place to attract new members and could also 'add value' to the event for Toolpost too.

[Dave Atkinson]

As a self professed expert cameraman with years of experience, did you volunteer your services to the AWGB for the recent Seminar?

No, I'm not a member and I wasn't free for it all anyway.
Frankly, I work hard enough that spending three days working for free isn't at all appealing.

PaulH that last statement will bring you some flak!  I am self employed (and that means working more than a standard 5 day week most weeks), and have been on the committee since 2009 and helped run and organise 4 seminars since which mean giving up a lot more than 3 days believe me.  It felt like most of my life this year!

But I'm not bothered.  Neither do I take anything that is said here personally, neither am I downhearted about the loss at the Seminar.  The AWGB has organised a seminar every 2 years since 1987 and what we achieve is an event of world class status.  It isn't elitist, or cliquey and we set the charges at a price we feel people can afford that will at least break even.  We set the price slightly lower this time than the seminar before and took account of feedback from the last seminar.  It wasn't enough and as a group of Trustees we have taken the decision to revisit our assumptions - hence the reason we are taking a number of steps to make sure we continue to provide an event at an affordable cost that is enticing to turners across the UK and overseas.  And we get people from USA, Spain, Iceland, mainland Europe and Israel (this time) and from Australia last time as well.

We are very good at organising the event and putting it together.  I take Graham's point about why people don't come and I've heard them before.

We have given a lot of thought to the questionnaire.  The results so far are interesting and worthy of analysis.   Perhaps there is some confirmation bias, but it's as good as it gets with the resources we have available.  Just because the answer to one question is obvious (do you use the internet doesn't mean the rest is useless.  And many people have replied with valid and useful comments.

When it comes to attending events we have a show programme.  We attend a number of woody (Harrogate et al) and non woody (county) shows.  If we are invited to attend corporate events we will.  In the case you mention we weren't.   We are 15 Trustees many of whom work full time.  We are located across the UK and we can't attend everything everywhere.  We cant afford it in terms of the AWGB's money or the available funds.  And just as you don't want to give up your free time we have to balance the amount of time we give up. 

Keep your comments coming but please give me something concrete to work on. 

Dave
 

[The Bowler Hatted Turner]

Paul you are quite right in saying it would be a good place for the AWGB to recruit more members but bear in mine the only people that attend these events are woody type people and so the AWGB would be preaching to the converted (mainly) people. However in order to bring woodturning to the notice of a wider audience perhaps woodworking shows are not the best place to be.
   The other thing that should be taken into consideration is mannning an event such as this, I know everyone gets fed up hearing the same old thing but without volunteers to do it it just does not happen. With the number of events going on around the country the volunteers canot be expected to man every event.
         I wonder how many turners local to Toolpost even noticed the AWGB were not there? I also wonder how many turners local to Toolpost would volunteer their time at the next Toolpost event? not many I suspect.