Author Topic: Screens for Demonstrators and members  (Read 5929 times)

Offline Graham

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #15 on: July 03, 2015, 10:00:38 AM »
Oh I think people think for themselves all right. They think 'If I get injured I can sue'.

When you look at all the daft things club officials have to take into account it is a wonder there are still clubs about.
Regards
Graham
I have learnt the first rule of woodturning.
The internal diameter should never exceed the external width.
Nor the internal depth, the external height.
Does that make me an expert now ?

Offline Mark Sanger

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #16 on: July 03, 2015, 10:13:51 AM »
Oh I think people think for themselves all right. They think 'If I get injured I can sue'.

When you look at all the daft things club officials have to take into account it is a wonder there are still clubs about.

You're right Graham, some people even go out looking for injuries so they can sue, as you say for this I asked the question if it is not thought by the clubs that they should make sure a screen is being used/supply one/ or not allow the demo to proceed as I am sure if anything happened it would not only be down to the demonstrator, probably the club's safety policy would be looked at too, not saying I am right just posing the question.

Best to stay at home  :) at least then I can claim off the wife when I trip over her slippers.  :)

Offline Mark Sanger

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #17 on: July 03, 2015, 10:21:33 AM »
I.E mark, where do you draw the line. Perhaps that sadly lacking human trait of 'common sense' is needed? With so much H&S ruling everywhere perhaps people don't feel that they need to think for themselves anymore?

Pete

Unfortunately Pete I think you need to draw the line a lot sharper than it is now. As Graham has said, if some one gets injured they will soon instigate proceedings especially if they think they can get money for it, whether they win or not is a different matter, but who wants the stress of that. So my example of letting people pick up your tools was a valid point, as is using a fast grinding wheel in public without those nearby being given a face shield, how many people take grinders to demo's, what if the wheel explodes ??



Offline fuzzyturns

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #18 on: July 03, 2015, 10:22:34 AM »
I have been to around 15 demos so far (not a lot, I know) and there wasn't a screen on any of them. Although from a safety perspective they are the right thing to do, if a club cannot afford decent video equipment, the screen can render the demo useless, if it is made from cheap plastic which distorts the view.
The insurance isn't there to absolve clubs and demonstrators from their duty to assess the risks and then take action, it's there to cover some of the damage in case something goes wrong despite the care taken. I work in a company where H&S is taken very seriously, because we have accidents every year, and most years somebody gets killed on the job (construction industry). The aim really is to imbue people's thinking so that safety is no longer something you have to actively consider, it's a natural part of how you do your job. Since we work in a similar environment, and the demonstrators are the professionals (not the audience), I would say it is mostly the demonstrator's responsibility to at least give everybody a short lecture at the start of the demo, which may well include advice such as "Be careful when handling my tools, they are sharp". Once said, it then is everybody's common sense that needs to take over, and the demonstrator (and the club) should be off the hook.

Sadly, this subject, similar to many others, is tainted by a few people who cannot or will not accept responsibility for their own actions, and then seek compensation from others for their own stupidity.

Offline Philip Greenwood

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #19 on: July 03, 2015, 10:29:50 AM »
Thanks for all the replays, so far.

Its always difficult to get the balance right. At clubs screens can get in way of the people seeing what you are doing unless you have a very good camera person. I think some member like to be at the front to see every cut you make to see the technique being used rather look at the monitor.
Do I alter my demo at a club that does not provide a screen, no because I know I will never do anything that would put members at risk. Ok timber can have voids in the centre but you can tell by the sound long before a problem could occur.

Mark any comments are welcome. If I had a pound for ever time my tools were pick up I would not need to work anymore.  At time I think I am at more risk then the members when I look at the floor around me and see all the cables around my feet.

We all go to enjoy ourselves and learn as well, yes I have to think about H&S but I use common sense like I hope most people do.

Offline TONY MALIN

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #20 on: July 03, 2015, 11:17:16 AM »
The question was should clubs provide screens, and could equally be posed as should demonstrators provide screens.
The answer in theory is yes but in practice no.

So much for a risk assessment as against assessing the risk.

For public demos the answer is yes. (But be aware of small boys poking their heads round to get a better look)

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #21 on: July 03, 2015, 01:17:29 PM »
Those of you that have been to one of my demos will have seen me talking about the reverse run grinder that I use to sharpen my skew chisels on. Some may also be aware that I now include the warning about cutting yourself when I pass the freshly ground skew around the audience. Although I demonstrate how sharp it is by shaving hair from my arm there are those that obviously do not believe me and have to run their thumb across the blade apart that is from the person that shall remain nameless who ran his thumb ALONG the blade slicing his thumb open and causing a wound that required stitching.
        I still pass the skew around but by giving the warning not to and explaining why, I now feel that I have taken all necessary steps to prevent a similar injury short of not passing the tool around in the first place. So in effect I carried out a risk assessment which I now put in operation every time I do that particular part of the demo.
        I once saw a demonstrator at a show make a small box and there was the young lad stood dutifully behind the screen watching, at the end of the demonstration the turner walked around to the front to show what he had made and blew on the box promptly blowing dust into the young man's eyes. What price a screen then?
 Health and safety is everyone's responsibility whether you are demonstrating or watching or even if you have just walked into the room. You cannot go through life with your eyes closed and your thumb up your b*m and your brain in neutral because the laws of nature will dictate who survives unscathed and who does not.

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #22 on: July 03, 2015, 01:20:37 PM »

For public demos the answer is yes. (But be aware of small boys poking their heads round to get a better look)

The better shows require a risk assessment when applying. It isn't just small boys either, plenty of adults, including other turners who think they can come behind the screen to see what you are doing. Almost as annoying as the ones who stand there taking photos of your work without asking and get offended if you ask why but that's a nother topic for another thread.

pete
Turners don't make mistakes, they have design opportunities

Offline Graham

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #23 on: July 03, 2015, 02:04:16 PM »
You cannot go through life with your eyes closed and your thumb up your b*m and your brain in neutral
Oh but John, its so comfortable.
Regards
Graham
I have learnt the first rule of woodturning.
The internal diameter should never exceed the external width.
Nor the internal depth, the external height.
Does that make me an expert now ?

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Screens for Demonstrators and members
« Reply #24 on: July 03, 2015, 04:56:41 PM »
 ;D ;D ;D