Author Topic: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions  (Read 37110 times)

Offline GBF

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #30 on: June 15, 2015, 11:27:38 AM »
Last year I had a gardener do two days work for me wheeling a barrow to a skip because I had torn ligaments in my knee he charged me £160  00 a day.
Therefore I think if a Woodturner is charging you £180  00 for a full day demo plus travel you are getting a bargain.
Travel costs are not just for fuel they are to cover a share of overall annual expenses of a vehicle and his labour when he is driving to and return from a demo.
I do not do Demo's anymore as I don't think they are worth the work and worry it is easier money to teach in your own workshop.
If I teach two students in my workshop I charge £180  00 a day for the two of them that is easier and more rewarding than doing a 200 mile round trip to earn the same money and all I have to supply is a couple of bits of wood a light lunch and a bit of electric.
You work out which is best and then be thankful you can get demonstrators.
most clubs I have spoken to are finding it increasingly difficult to get demonstrators for evening demo's.

Regards George
The man that never made a mistake never made anything

Offline TONY MALIN

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #31 on: June 15, 2015, 01:19:27 PM »
So no demonstrators no clubs no AWGB ???

Offline Mark Sanger

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #32 on: June 15, 2015, 02:38:37 PM »
Woodturning clubs are insignificant compared with many other activities and are mostly dependent on demonstrators to fulfil their programmes. We'd be lost without them, so they need to be suitably reimbursed for what they do. By the nature of things they will charge what the market will stand. It doesn't really matter to us what costs they incur or how they manage their taxes.

The cost of travel in terms of time is significant let alone the 45p per mile. It would therefore seem sensible to charge only the marginal cost and absorb the fixed expense.

I agree people will charge what the market stands, until they find another market which will pay the correct wage for their time, and charging the marginal fee with me absorbing the fixed expense, must admit I kinda like the old fashioned way of working in that I work and people pay me for it, if they don't want to then don't ask me to do the work.  :) :) 

Offline fuzzyturns

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #33 on: June 15, 2015, 04:27:56 PM »
A club lives by the spirit of its members, not by the fees they charge. Obviously a small club will not have the financial power to afford big lathes or expensive demonstrators, but they can still organize interesting meetings by using a little brain power.
I can understand why George doesn't want to do demonstrations, it's a personal decision, and every wood turner has to make that decision for themselves. Whilst there will always be turners who don't want to do demos (for whatever reason), there will probably also always be others who do. A free market situation will create a natural balance between supply and demand.

At West Midlands Woodturners we had David Lowe on Sunday, and I had a brief chat with him. He thinks the clubs should just get a little better organized, so that when he travels down from Scarborough to the West Midlands, he can cover 3 or 4 clubs in one long weekend, and then his travel expenses can be shared between these clubs. In that way it can make business sense for both sides, and even smaller clubs can get decent demonstrations.

Offline David Buskell

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2015, 05:22:03 PM »
I'd agree with David Lowe's comments re clubs getting organised. We have 3 clubs within our area and we all seem to use the same demonstrators but at different times. We have one demonstrator coming down this week and he'll be back at the end of October at one of the other clubs.

We did try to set up a system whereby we tried to co-ordinate our programs but this did not work - you need to have the will amongst all the clubs involved to do this.
Quote from: TONY MALIN
nk=topic=3246.msg26793#msg26793 date=1434370767
So no demonstrators no clubs no AWGB ???

Clubs can survive without solely using pro demonstrators - in our case, more of our members are getting confident enough to organise a half or full evening slot.

There's one other thought not yet mentioned: for an all day event, it might even be more economical to fly in a  demonstrator from abroad. Our experience has been that we get a detailed shopping list and when the turner comes along, he/she checks the set-up sharpens their tools and then starts into the demo. Worked well for us but you do have to get the right turner to make it a financial success. You get the added bonus of being able to offer places to other clubs and to charge a fee to help cover costs.

We don't really take advantage of the number of overseas turners visiting/passing through the UK as much as we should. It's hard work getting everything organised but well worth the end result.

We know that Skype/VOIP apps work well but not  a lot of demonstrators are set up with a studio to provide this kind of demo. Saves on costs and time - the perfect solution! You may have seen the results of some of the Skype/VOIP tests done elsewhere and they do provide a good demo experience. The big problem is of course to ensure that your venue has a good internet connection that you can use.-not easy.
David
At The Cutting Edge

Offline burywoodturners

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2015, 08:55:27 PM »
I write as a club secretary responsible for the club programme. We do have some expensive guests, and we balance this with local demonstrators who will charge a bit less. I do see from time to time that the AWGB trains new demonstrators, and it strikes me that we could help each other by offering a booking to some of these, clearly they need to have bookings, otherwise why train? We are always looking for some one to do some thing a bit different. So why not help each other and give the newly trained demonstrators a chance? Why not? because I do not know who has undertaken these courses and I cannot contact them.
So Please can we have a list of these people and if not can they be given club secretaries details so we can offer them some thing we both need.
Ron Davis
Bury St Edmunds Woodturning Club

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #36 on: June 16, 2015, 12:47:12 AM »
Any AWGB member who wishes to be listed as offering demonstrations is already listed on the website. We can't publish members details without their permission so that's the only list we can give you.

Offline David Buskell

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #37 on: June 30, 2015, 05:29:02 PM »
Ron,

There are a lot of good club demonstrators who have not gone on the AWGB course but might be available for other club demos.

Only way I can think of at the moment, is a round robin to clubs to ask if anyone interested in doing a demo or knows of any good demonstrators ??

If your email reaches my club, I;ll certainly add a couple of names to  the list for you - none of which have done the AWGB course.

David
David
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Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #38 on: June 30, 2015, 05:54:01 PM »
The list on the website isn't related to who has done the course, just AWGB members who have requested to be added.

Offline TONY MALIN

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #39 on: July 01, 2015, 10:08:11 AM »
When a club member demonstrates at his/her own club they are insured under member to member. It would be helpful if the insurers were to extend this to inter club members. Perhaps AWGB could use it's clout  to get it included.

Offline burywoodturners

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #40 on: July 01, 2015, 08:41:38 PM »
Thanks David, I think that some sort of network between clubs would be great. I post our programmes on our website and I do get occasional inquiries about the demonstrators we have had. I just thought that as someone had gone to the trouble to undertake demonstrator training, they would want to demonstrate. The demonstrators and the club secretaries should have a better way of contacting each other, perhaps they could be asked if they would like to have their names on the AWGB site, or passed on to club secretaries in their area.
Ron

Offline John D Smith

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #41 on: July 01, 2015, 09:02:56 PM »
Hi I think these Questions have been answered many times on previous postings I am sure some one will put a link to this  thread and remember the AWGB are by law not allowed to advise you on Insurance matters.

                                                 Regards John
John Smith

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #42 on: July 02, 2015, 01:20:39 AM »
When a club member demonstrates at his/her own club they are insured under member to member. It would be helpful if the insurers were to extend this to inter club members. Perhaps AWGB could use it's clout  to get it included.

Tony,
Your statement is not necessarily true and in many cases it is not true. The cover would depend on many things so it would be unwise to generalise. The best approach is to check with your insurer to clarify what they do and don't cover.

Offline Mark Sanger

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #43 on: July 02, 2015, 08:23:32 AM »
Also important to check the small print of your insurance. Recently mine changed to say that every event I attend has to have an accompanying 'Risk Assessment' or I won't be covered. Been to several shows where it has been apparent the demonstrators have not carried one out and would probably not be covered as the techniques they are using obviously put the viewing public at risk and a small change would have removed the risk all together.

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Cost of Demonstrations/Revolutions
« Reply #44 on: July 02, 2015, 08:51:21 AM »
Perhaps I ought to start running risk assessment courses ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D