Author Topic: Demonstrators  (Read 26052 times)

andersonec

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Demonstrators
« on: September 17, 2014, 07:17:44 PM »
We have (every month) a demonstrator at the club, I have often asked "Why don't we video the demo then it can be used by the club members". The point is a demo can go on for two or more hours and if you want to try to do the piece demonstrated you can get as far as mounting your timber in the lathe, turning it round and then stand there scratching your head wondering what was done next, it is impossible to try and copy anything which was demonstrated at club meetings unless you have a photographic memory which will last you until you have time to get on the lathe.

The answer I get is "Professionals don't want to be video'd" or "They will own the copyright" or "They want to sell you their DVD's" or "It's too much trouble to edit the video and get it onto disk" so many barriers I gave up.

Why then do the demonstrators not hand out a little precis to anybody wanting to have a go at the piece, after all, what is the point of the demo? Instruction on how to use the tools? for every demonstrator there is a different way to approach the work with every given tool, their technique could be described on their hand-out, they know what they are going to demo (usually the same thing at every club) so it would be easy to prepare a sheet with the sequence of events which would help anyone trying to emulate their work. Please don't say it would be too time consuming or too expensive.

Andy
« Last Edit: September 17, 2014, 07:40:03 PM by andersonec »

Offline Graham

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #1 on: September 17, 2014, 07:24:43 PM »
Judging by what I see on Youtube, in America it is perfectly normal to video visiting demonstrators, don't know about here as I am not a club member.
Regards
Graham
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The internal diameter should never exceed the external width.
Nor the internal depth, the external height.
Does that make me an expert now ?

Offline John D Smith

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #2 on: September 17, 2014, 07:56:00 PM »
Hello Andy,
                  I can understand Demonstrators not wanting to be videoed while doing a demonstration I have seen some of these videos on you tube and

Facebook and 99% are very amateurish and show the operation in a very bad light. And why shouldn't the want to sell their DVDs.

I do not agree that demonstrators do the same demo at every club every demonstrator we have had at our club we have discussed what we would like

demonstrated most demonstrators will give you several options and some keep records as to what the demonstrated at our club the last time they came.

Also a majority will offer hand outs and many will say "if you want to know something and forgot to ask send me an email"

I would suggest whoever does the bookings at your club get them to communicate with the demonstrator prior to the demonstrator and get what your

club wants to see.
                            Regards John
 
John Smith

Offline Les Symonds

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #3 on: September 17, 2014, 08:02:17 PM »
Why then do the demonstrators not hand out a little precis to anybody wanting to have a go at the piece, after all, what is the point of the demo?
Andy
It's a very fair point, Andy. Many is the time that I have produced printed hand-outs for the staff training that I have done in Communication Skills and Health & Safety, indeed, it is an almost obligatory aspect of my staff-training. Furthermore, when I train I am moving, talking and demonstrating amongst my 'audience', whereas most woodturning demos happen up on a stage and can be viewed from what is often not a good angle. Yes, we have live video feed to monitors at our club (and at many others, no doubt) , but how often does the demonstrator move in front of the camera as he leans across his work.
I, for one, would welcome your suggestion being taken up by the professionals.

Les
Education is important, but wood turning is importanter.

Offline dr4g0nfly

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #4 on: September 17, 2014, 08:50:31 PM »
Although we've never asked to record a demonstrator (we do video & project), I've only ever had one demonstrator ask that we don't record him. The reason given was purely the worry that the opening prelims (Safety info) would be removed and thereby leave the demo without an important aspect considering what he was going to demo for us.

I've also seen some of the American demo evenings on youTube and agree that they are normally of 'iffy' quality, video and sound. Truthfully I normally get fed up after 10 minutes or so, of waffle  and turn it off.
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Offline Graham

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #5 on: September 17, 2014, 09:07:18 PM »
I normally get fed up after 10 minutes or so, of waffle  and turn it off.
I admire your endurance, I cannot usually watch them for that long
Regards
Graham
I have learnt the first rule of woodturning.
The internal diameter should never exceed the external width.
Nor the internal depth, the external height.
Does that make me an expert now ?

Offline bodrighywood

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #6 on: September 17, 2014, 09:28:43 PM »
Personally it wouldn't bother me being videoed when demoing as long as it was done properly. As someone mentioned it isn't always possible to make sure that what you are doing is visible at some clubs where there is perhaps only one camera that ideally needs to be re-aligned every now and then. One of the problems with hand outs for me is that often the demos I do adapt to suit the audience as I get to know where they are coming from. A video would overcome this for those that wish to re-view the demo though.

Pete
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Offline julcle

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2014, 02:32:25 PM »
I tend to take lots of stills when I see a demo at least then I have a track of the process and the sequence of events. Must admit though when I've been to Burnham club as a visitor they must have thought I was a bit mad. Will be doing again this Saturday as we have Joey Richardson demoing at
Crow Valley in Cwmbran.  --  Julian
Location: S. Wales
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andersonec

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2014, 02:54:05 PM »
Hello Andy,
                  I can understand Demonstrators not wanting to be videoed while doing a demonstration I have seen some of these videos on you tube and

Facebook and 99% are very amateurish and show the operation in a very bad light. And why shouldn't the want to sell their DVDs.

I do not agree that demonstrators do the same demo at every club every demonstrator we have had at our club we have discussed what we would like

demonstrated most demonstrators will give you several options and some keep records as to what the demonstrated at our club the last time they came.

Also a majority will offer hand outs and many will say "if you want to know something and forgot to ask send me an email"

I would suggest whoever does the bookings at your club get them to communicate with the demonstrator prior to the demonstrator and get what your

club wants to see.
                            Regards John
 

Hi John.

I have nothing against demonstrators selling their video's, I have bought some and as for the quality of club recordings, I am not asking for professional stuff, just a film of the sequence of events, if the clubs camera is naff so be it, all that is required is a reminder of the whole job.

I would like to see the governing body discuss this subject at their meetings, some way of leaving the club with a useful way of attempting the project, if not then the demo is all but useless in my eyes and it seems the club is only coughing up for an evenings entertainment, I have never seen anyone at our club attempt anything shown by any of the demonstrators.

Andy


andersonec

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2014, 03:01:46 PM »
Personally it wouldn't bother me being videoed when demoing as long as it was done properly. As someone mentioned it isn't always possible to make sure that what you are doing is visible at some clubs where there is perhaps only one camera that ideally needs to be re-aligned every now and then. One of the problems with hand outs for me is that often the demos I do adapt to suit the audience as I get to know where they are coming from. A video would overcome this for those that wish to re-view the demo though.

Pete

Thanks Pete.

Maybe mention this at your next AWGB meeting.

Andy

andersonec

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #10 on: September 18, 2014, 03:05:17 PM »
Why then do the demonstrators not hand out a little precis to anybody wanting to have a go at the piece, after all, what is the point of the demo?
Andy
It's a very fair point, Andy. Many is the time that I have produced printed hand-outs for the staff training that I have done in Communication Skills and Health & Safety, indeed, it is an almost obligatory aspect of my staff-training. Furthermore, when I train I am moving, talking and demonstrating amongst my 'audience', whereas most woodturning demos happen up on a stage and can be viewed from what is often not a good angle. Yes, we have live video feed to monitors at our club (and at many others, no doubt) , but how often does the demonstrator move in front of the camera as he leans across his work.
I, for one, would welcome your suggestion being taken up by the professionals.

Les

Thanks Les, especially coming from someone who can turn out very nice stuff, I am a relative newcomer by the way so this is why I am asking this, I mainly make jewellery boxes but do some turning to compliment them.

Andy


Offline John D Smith

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #11 on: September 18, 2014, 07:53:06 PM »
Hello Andy,
                One of the demonstrators at our Club did a Demo on earring stands not only was the an excellent demo he supplied drawings of the finished

product he gave away a dozen kits to members and two jigs for drilling the holes and a few members always bring something to the Members work table

that they have seen demonstrated.

As for the Governing Body (AWGB) being involved with Demonstrators at club meetings surely this down to the club Committee why do you not ask one of

your Committee to raise your points at their next meeting?

                                                                                    Regards John
John Smith

Offline The Bowler Hatted Turner

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #12 on: September 18, 2014, 09:28:32 PM »
hello Andy, I thought I would add my points as a professional turner/demonstrator.
 I do not make or sell DVD's but I am still reluctant to a certain extent for people to film me,my reasons are this: Sometimes even professional turners make mistakes when demoing and I for one would not like to see my mistakes put on you tube as this could affect whether I get bookings from other clubs. This would then impact on my earnings. Also, in these days of litigation, if someone injured themselves using a demonstrated technique it could cost me money.
    As regards handouts, I used to do a handout but as Pete has already said sometimes you adapt your demo to the audience so the H/O is not pertinent. Also, after spending many hours producing a handout it is demoralising at the end of the evening to see them spread across the floor and yes it is time consuming and expensive when most clubs want cheap demonstrations and sometimes all they dowant is to be entertained.
 As John has already said, if there is anything you need to know send an email, I for one do reply to the best of my ability.
What would be better is for the audience to get involved with the demonstration, ask questions and get the demonstrator to go over things again if you are not clear. It is not an easy thing to stand in front turning and wonder if there is anybody paying attention, especially when there is one or two people rudely talking  when you are doing your bit.
 The other thing is I am sure, like me, most demonstrators ask what you would like done,the reply should be more positive than "anything you like" because we can do most things but want to do what is of most use/interest.
Have to stop for now, thunderstorm.

Offline Paul Hannaby

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2014, 02:14:52 PM »
I think you should bear in mind the following -

The demonstrator probably won't have any control over what is recorded and as such, they are putting themselves at risk if the recording lacks vital details or warnings due to editing.
The demonstrator is only being paid for a "live" demonstration. I don't think it would be unreasonable for a demonstrator to request an additional fee for a recorded demo.
The copyright would reside with the club not the demonstrator so they would potentially lose revenue on future recordings
The video could be used in place of future demonstrations, reducing the potential earnings of demonstrators.

I don't think this is something for the AWGB to make a ruling on. It should be up to each individual club to set their own policy.

andersonec

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Re: Demonstrators
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2014, 07:29:57 PM »
hello Andy, I thought I would add my points as a professional turner/demonstrator.
 I do not make or sell DVD's but I am still reluctant to a certain extent for people to film me,my reasons are this: Sometimes even professional turners make mistakes when demoing and I for one would not like to see my mistakes put on you tube as this could affect whether I get bookings from other clubs. This would then impact on my earnings. Also, in these days of litigation, if someone injured themselves using a demonstrated technique it could cost me money.
    As regards handouts, I used to do a handout but as Pete has already said sometimes you adapt your demo to the audience so the H/O is not pertinent. Also, after spending many hours producing a handout it is demoralising at the end of the evening to see them spread across the floor and yes it is time consuming and expensive when most clubs want cheap demonstrations and sometimes all they dowant is to be entertained.
 As John has already said, if there is anything you need to know send an email, I for one do reply to the best of my ability.
What would be better is for the audience to get involved with the demonstration, ask questions and get the demonstrator to go over things again if you are not clear. It is not an easy thing to stand in front turning and wonder if there is anybody paying attention, especially when there is one or two people rudely talking  when you are doing your bit.
 The other thing is I am sure, like me, most demonstrators ask what you would like done,the reply should be more positive than "anything you like" because we can do most things but want to do what is of most use/interest.
Have to stop for now, thunderstorm.

A signed form guaranteeing any recording would not be posted on social media site should cover any mistakes being made public knowledge.

I do not understand when you say you do not want to be sued if someone injures themselves copying any technique, do you state at the start of your demo's that what you are about to demo is not to be tried at home? are you not trying to teach club members when doing these demo's? if it is tried at home from memory I would have thought there is more chance of something going wrong than if you had something to look at to remind you how it was done.

The demonstrators I have seen come to the club with blanks prepared for certain jobs.

If there are rude members talking over your demo then I would expect the chairman to say something but you could always ask if they would not mind if you talked over their conversation, should shut them up!!!

Thanks for contributing to the thread, it is nice to hear the views from the other side of the fence.

Andy