AWGB Woodturning Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Katchin on March 10, 2011, 03:21:45 PM
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This is a duplicate post that I made on 'a certain other forum' :o
I have been setting up my new bandsaw and it appears to be off-centre, i'm sure that i'm doing something wrong, but the instructions that came with it are terrible. After putting it all together, I noticed that the blade rubs against the centre plastic round on one side, and I cannot see how to centre it properly. I can move the guides, but not far enough to make a difference it seems, its as though the whole blade is 50mm offline, or the table is in the wrong place.
After setting up the saw I swapped the blade for one from tuffsaws, and had to change the angle of the top wheel slightly by using the adjuster at the back, which was fine, so the blade is centred on the wheel at the top ok. The upper guide assembly seems to be able to move somewhat, which makes the upper guides virtually useless as the whole assembly moves. The lower guide assembly seems to be too far over.
I did notice at the back of the lower wheel that there are four bolts, am I to move the whole lower wheel over a bit maybe?
here are a couple of photo's:-
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The picture is out of focus, so it's hard to tell what's happening there, but it does look to be a way out...but 50mm?!!! That's almost on another bandsaw!
I would think the two bearing guides on the upper section are to blame...I can't believe that they'd fit them in the wrong place (but anything's possible)...
I can't see too clearly on any pic to be honest, so this is mostly assumption...
I take it the upper guides are bearings on a steel rod, and these are held with a set screw (allen key type doodad)?
If so, slacken them off, and then reset them so that they hold the blade in the correct position and tighten down but not so tight the blade binds.
Sorry this is a quick answer...I have to and get ready for a demo this evening...
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Hi Katchin,
looking at the pictures do you mean 5mm offline and not 50mm?
Just open the top door of the B/S and make sure that the top pulley is in the right place. Some makes (not sure about yours)allow the pulley to move slightly left and right before the tension is applied. This might be your problem, if not I would advise having a word with someone with a little bit of experience who can see your machine.Don't take any chances,in a fight between you and the machine the machine will always win!
John
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yes sorry, i did mean 5mm, i'll check these ideas in the morning. The upper guide is on a bracket thing, that moves up and down, but its very loose.
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ok, i've had a good look. The top pulley is fixed, so that isn't the culprit.
The new picture i have posted here says it all really, it must be the guide assembly. Surely that is very wrong?
I have somewhat realligned it, the blade is no longer touching the plastic insert in the bench, but the upper guide still looks very wrong, and moves a lot. Also there is no real power to the blade, if I add tension to it at all, then it wont spin, the drive wheel just spins. The rubber band from the drive wheel, to the main lower wheel is rather loose.
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Hi Katchin
I can see from this photo that something is wrong, is the blade running correctly in the lower guide bearings, ie have you check the blade is running between the 2 bearings.
Second have you adjusted the lower guides as well as the top ones. All the bearing top and bottom needs to be moved away from the blade by at least 5mm then you need to adjust the blade tension, after this you need to adjust the guide bearings so there only just touch the blade, do this for the 4 side bearings, then adjust the back thrust bearings to just touching the blade.
The upper guide assemble will rise and fall to accommodate the thickness of wood being cut, but will be able to be lock at the set height if not lock this will move.
I am sure other will give advice as well.
Philip
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Hi Katchin.
What I suggest is this.With the blade removed temporarily remove the guide assembly,this is probably held on with 2 6mm bolts or cap screws and fixed to the aluminium blade guard. If your machine is 2 speed, choose which speed you want it on (I normally leave mine on fast).Clean the drive belt pulley and position the belt.Tension the belt,once tensioned, you should be able to give it about a quarter twist between finger and thumb, this should indicate the correct tension. Replace the blade and tension it as normal and see where in relation to the bed the blade ends up. Remember that the blade should run on the crown of the wheel.
If it is still too far to the left try tweaking the position of the bed. Once you are happy drop the blade guard down and run up the machine, once the blade is running true reposition the blade guides. Fit the guard with all the bearings positioned away from the blade. Move the thrust bearing, the one behind the blade, until it is no more than 1mm away from the back of the blade. This is there to stop you stressing the blade during a cut,if you are constantly rubbing it during use your blade may need a sharpen. Next adjust the guide bearings, 1 either side of the blade. They should just be off touching the blade and should be positioned behind the tooth gullet.
I hope this helps, watch you fingers and don't sue me if it doesn't work.
Regards
John
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Katchin, Philip made a good point which I forgot but is very important, make sure the bottom guides are set correctly as they could influence the blade aswell.
John
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i think they are ok, picture 4 from my original post is of the bottom guides. Having never used a bandsaw before its a little difficult to be sure if it is correct or not.
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Hi
Did you get your bandsaw local or by mail order. If local i would contact them and tell them the problem, a photo would help show your problem, if by mail oder send them the photos with the information that you have told us.
The other way is to contact Fox, the number should be on the Manual.
Philip
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I got it from Poolewood, its probably a fault with me rather than the saw, wouldn't be the first time ::)
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Have you tried what John and i have said about setting up the bandsaw, all bandsaws need to set up before using.
Or give Poolewood a phone.
Philip
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yes I have been trying it, although just now I didn't dare turn it on as its after midnight ;D
I think a lot of the problem is with the top screw in this picture, its just turning without really gripping, and it would seem that just those two screws are holding the whole upper assembly in place. I don't really see how it could ever be firm with just two screws holding it in the middle, it would always be able to move side to side on the screws a little surely?
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Are you in a woodturning club, Katchin? If not, where abouts are you? There may be somebody that would be willing to come and take a look for you. Bandsaws have been known to have a nasty attitude, so it would be better to KNOW it was set up correctly.
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I'm in the Red Rose woodturning club, which unfortunately does not have a forum. It next meets on 20th March, cant say I really know anyone there yet however, as only recently joined. I live in Lancaster.
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Give Terry Davis at Poolwood a call. He is very knowledgable and helpful.
I have had many dealings with him and always been satisfied with his help.
Fred Taylor
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Hiya
I know Red Rose - I was demonstrating there in February. They are friendly bunch and there is a lot of experience. have a word with Tony Rowlands the secretary and he'll point you in the direction of someone who can help. It's not far from there to yours and I'm sure someone will come and show you.
Bandsaws can be a devil to set up as you will see from the replies above.
Alternatively, if you're around Saturday afternoon (19th March) around teatime, I'd be happy to pop in and show you how to set it up as I'm visiting my mum in Kendal and will be on my way home - Tea, strong, white, no sugar ;) :)
My email is david.atkinson73@ntlworld.com
Cheers Dave
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Much appreciated, i'll let you know. I just emailed poolewood, as Terry wasn't in the office, i'll see what he says. He may just send me a new part for the top assembly, or he may take another route, we'll see.
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hello Katchin, Have you got your Bandsaw up and running yet? Regards John
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hi, no not yet, but Dave is kindly going to look at it on saturday. Poolewood forwarded my email to Serracon(UK supplier I presume), I assume they will do something at some point ::)
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well, dave has confirmed that my bandsaw is great at looking like a bandsaw, but not great at being a bandsaw! So I guess I need a new one >:(
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Sorry to hear that, Katchin. Dave's a good man and will have given you the best advice you could have. At least now you won't be risking injury by trying to use a faulty machine.
Is it new and under guarantee?
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yes thankfully, hopefully poolewood / serracon will be speedy at swapping it out
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Pleasure to meet you on Saturday John.
I hope you get it sorted out.
We started from scratch and tried everything but it's just not right (it doesn't look square for a start) and not only that when we did turn it on it didn't go round much faster than I could turn it by hand - we tried cutting a piece of 1/2" pine and managed to stop the blade after an 1" ???
I'm sure Poolewood will sort it out for you. I've dealt with Terry before and found him to be very helpful. not only that but you have a statutory right to a replacement machine or your money back as it's simple not fit for purpose.
Let us know how you get on.
Cheers Dave
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well, new saw just arrived, lets hope this one works a little better!
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Not much basically.
Its properly centred at least this time, no problems with the guides. But absolutely no power, same piece of 1/2" pine, blade stopped repeatedly. The saw sounded faster than the last one, but not much. Guess I will have to get a refund, and ebay the blades I bought for it :(
was slow to get to speed on start up too, yet it turns freely by hand.
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Not a good advert for Fox then.
It's a shame you've had all this trouble. I think I'd go the eBay way next time, or else plump for a Record bandsaw. I know a number of people with the 300 and 350 and they all say it's a great saw. Not sure how the price compares to your Fox though.
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The BS300E is £385, the 350S is £457, mine was £180 ;D
big price jump for someone totally new to turning, but as they say, you get what you pay for I guess.
Whilst I was writing this reply, the engineer from Serracon rang me up as I had already spoken to Terry from Poolewood. He wants to try a third time, and has promised to try the saw first before it gets sent out, so that would be good, as long as I get a working saw i'm happy, even if it has taken a month >:(
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There must be something wrong with the motor again James. have you tried running it without the blade just see how fast it sounds?
Let's hope Serracon get it sorted for you. Fox stuff is usually pretty good - we have their small lathe at out club and it gives great service.
Here's hoping
Cheers Dave
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bandsaw is being collected tomorrow and i'm opting for a full refund instead of a replacement, i've lost confidence in it. So I need a new option, I hear that the Startrite 352 is the best option if you can find a 2nd hand one, cant find one currently though. Any others you can think of that are good? I would go for the Record 300, but with VAT its £461, and thats just a bit too much for me.
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anyone had experience with a http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Band-saw-excellent-condition-Elektra-Beckum-/130501064531?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1e62783753#ht_500wt_1156 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Band-saw-excellent-condition-Elektra-Beckum-/130501064531?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item1e62783753#ht_500wt_1156) Elektra Beckum BAS315
Auction ends in 6 hours, but it just happens to be local to me.
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I had for one for ages, and it served me well.
The main thing to look out for is that the top guides are intact, although spares are available through metabo.
Ohhhhh....just looked at the price. Forget it. Too, too expensive for a second hand one. I'd expect to pay 100-150 max.
Another odd thing...the cut depth should be about 7 1/4" not 4"...Odd that. May mean a faulty guide bracket.
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I've had one of these as well...same spec as the EB315...same things to look out for...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ryobi-3080-bandsaw-/360354614511?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item53e6cf0cef (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Ryobi-3080-bandsaw-/360354614511?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item53e6cf0cef)
Another to look out for...My father in law has this one and it has served him well for years...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KITY-BANDSAW-/250795597501?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3a64951ebd (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/KITY-BANDSAW-/250795597501?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item3a64951ebd)
And the newer Metabo version of the EB315/6/7
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Metabo-BAS-317-Precision-Bandsaw-240v-/300540426359?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item45f99af877 (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Metabo-BAS-317-Precision-Bandsaw-240v-/300540426359?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item45f99af877)
And I use this one every day...and It's not a million miles from you...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/startrite-301-bandsaw-/150584037007?pt=UK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item230f820e8f (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/startrite-301-bandsaw-/150584037007?pt=UK_BOI_Building_Materials_Supplies_Carpentry_Woodwork_ET&hash=item230f820e8f)
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ok, thanks, much appreciated. Its very difficult to tell whats what these days as a lot of them are the same thing, but with minor differences.
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Hi John
Andy has some good suggestions - I have an email from record Power advertising their spring show in April - 15th 16th. It's Chesterfield so it would be a good day out. They ,ay have a deal on at the show - perhaps worth a call.
Also have a word with Tony at the club and see if anyone has one for sale.
Personally, I'd like to look and feel before I buy. We have this for sale at our club, but you;d have to come down to Wilmslow to get it.
Good luck Dave